Grinding candles meta -- really?

[StimJunky]

I am a big fan of DD1 dating as far back as the Kickstarter and have just shy of 400 hours put into it. I was incredibly excited for a sequel but having played it for two days now I'm somewhat at a loss for the design decisions in DD2.

Let's put aside the carriage for now. It has its issues but who thought doing endless throwaway runs to farm candles just to incrementally improve your stats a fun mechanic? Nevermind centering the entire game around this feature. Sure, DD was grindy but it offered up a respite from becoming monotonous by allowing us to change up your party composition and run different dungeons. There was also a purpose to it as it allowed you to upgrade your town which would allow you to better manage the adverse effects of dungeon spelunking.

DD2 doesn't allow us any of that. It's just mindlessly retracing your steps with the same four characters. The path system isn't that diverse or fun really and the candles meta feels more like it was designed due to the carriage gimmick rather than because it was actually an interesting new feature. I just find so many features of DD2 really underwhelming and not at all what I was hoping for.

[HighLanderPony]

I could unlock all the characters by winning the fairly easy first chapter once.

One can do different runs with different teams picking different regions just like in DD1.

I don't see much difference between doing low level dungeons in DD1 to beef up for a tougher dungeon and doing partial expeditions to get candles to beef up for a full clear of a chapter in DD2.

[SharkPlush]

It doesn't feel like grinding, I suspect you can make it an inn farther every 1-3 repeats if you make the right choices with those candles.

[StimJunky]

Originally posted by HighLanderPony:

I don't see much difference between doing low level dungeons in DD1 to beef up for a tougher dungeon and doing partial expeditions to get candles to beef up for a full clear of a chapter in DD2.

Doing low level dungeons was not all was to do in DD1 nor were you forced to do so from the onset. New Characters arrived after each mission and there's was no need to do low level dungeons unless you specifically wanted to level the resolve of some new recruits.
Not to mention you're also collecting materials for upgrades for the town which apply to all characters going forward. You're running dungeons for town materials and to level your party's resolve levels.

DD2 forces you to run literally throw away expeditions just to add some variety to your play through from the very onset. It's not even comparable.

[SharkPlush]

If by "throw away" you mean "win and cash out" yes. Going for the second inn on the very first run with nothing unlocked would be super sketchy.

[Kashra Fall]

Originally posted by StimJunky:

Originally posted by HighLanderPony:

I don't see much difference between doing low level dungeons in DD1 to beef up for a tougher dungeon and doing partial expeditions to get candles to beef up for a full clear of a chapter in DD2.

Doing low level dungeons was not all was to do in DD1 nor were you forced to do so from the onset. New Characters arrived after each mission and there's was no need to do low level dungeons unless you specifically wanted to level the resolve of some new recruits.
Not to mention you're also collecting materials for upgrades for the town which apply to all characters going forward. You're running dungeons for town materials and to level your party's resolve levels.

DD2 forces you to run literally throw away expeditions just to add some variety to your play through from the very onset. It's not even comparable.

Haven't felt that way at all actually. Playing the expeditions is different each time because the trinkets found, combat items found, encounters, encountered is all different (Minus the lairs which are static for the most part.) so they don't feel like throw aways. I agree with the above statement that what you're doing, is no different than taking a small dungeon run in DD1, where you had 2-3 combat encounters and a bunch of walking around going "What do I use on this to get the best loot?" they did away with all of that and just have the core of the game centered around the combat and character progression via story line (shrines) and expedition completions.

[Connatic]

Originally posted by yassy:

If by "throw away" you mean "win and cash out" yes. Going for the second inn on the very first run with nothing unlocked would be super sketchy.

Yeah, the flow of "runs" works differently in DD2. Not beating every act on your first or second try doesn't mean the game is broken.

[StimJunky]

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Originally posted by StimJunky:

Doing low level dungeons was not all was to do in DD1 nor were you forced to do so from the onset. New Characters arrived after each mission and there's was no need to do low level dungeons unless you specifically wanted to level the resolve of some new recruits.
Not to mention you're also collecting materials for upgrades for the town which apply to all characters going forward. You're running dungeons for town materials and to level your party's resolve levels.

DD2 forces you to run literally throw away expeditions just to add some variety to your play through from the very onset. It's not even comparable.

Haven't felt that way at all actually. Playing the expeditions is different each time because the trinkets found, combat items found, encounters, encountered is all different (Minus the lairs which are static for the most part.) so they don't feel like throw aways. I agree with the above statement that what you're doing, is no different than taking a small dungeon run in DD1, where you had 2-3 combat encounters and a bunch of walking around going "What do I use on this to get the best loot?" they did away with all of that and just have the core of the game centered around the combat and character progression via story line (shrines) and expedition completions.

Encounters aren't different at all as they're determined by the zone. So, if you're doing the same zone you see the same encounters. One-off combat items or trinkets don't change that or make it somehow different - especially when everything is gated early on by candles. By that logic running the same dungeon in DD1 would be a different experience every time because you can find different loot.

Yes, story missions do add something new every time you do it, but again, since skills are gated behind them, it's more of a requirement than anything which I find further increases the sense of grindy repetition.

[Connatic]

Originally posted by StimJunky:

Encounters aren't different at all as they're determined by the zone. So, if you're doing the same zone you see the same encounters. One-off combat items or trinkets don't change that or make it somehow different - especially when everything is gated early on by candles. By that logic running the same dungeon in DD1 would be a different experience every time because you can find different loot.

Well yeah. Mixing it up by picking it different zone, just like you would pick a different dungeon. And you aren't retracing you exact steps with the same four characters, you can mix up your team for different runs. Like it was said earlier, unlocking characters are an easy quick unlock.

Yes, story missions do add something new every time you do it, but again, since skills are gated behind them, it's more of a requirement than anything which I find further increases the sense of grindy repetition.

I can understand being frustrated you can't grab the OP meta skills you want right away, but I think it's odd to be upset about it when you don't even know what's avalible as a new player.

[Kashra Fall]

Originally posted by StimJunky:

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Haven't felt that way at all actually. Playing the expeditions is different each time because the trinkets found, combat items found, encounters, encountered is all different (Minus the lairs which are static for the most part.) so they don't feel like throw aways. I agree with the above statement that what you're doing, is no different than taking a small dungeon run in DD1, where you had 2-3 combat encounters and a bunch of walking around going "What do I use on this to get the best loot?" they did away with all of that and just have the core of the game centered around the combat and character progression via story line (shrines) and expedition completions.

Encounters aren't different at all as they're determined by the zone. So, if you're doing the same zone you see the same encounters. One-off combat items or trinkets don't change that or make it somehow different - especially when everything is gated early on by candles. By that logic running the same dungeon in DD1 would be a different experience every time because you can find different loot.

Yes, story missions do add something new every time you do it, but again, since skills are gated behind them, it's more of a requirement than anything which I find further increases the sense of grindy repetition.

Encounters aren't different? So elite, sturdy, two zombies, 4 zombies, 1 zombie, two screamers and a box etc doesn't happen? Cause it does in mine. The encounters change and thus your tactics change. The modifiers to the battlefield also change they way you approach things (Or they should.) etc.

[StimJunky]

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Originally posted by StimJunky:

Encounters aren't different at all as they're determined by the zone. So, if you're doing the same zone you see the same encounters. One-off combat items or trinkets don't change that or make it somehow different - especially when everything is gated early on by candles. By that logic running the same dungeon in DD1 would be a different experience every time because you can find different loot.

Yes, story missions do add something new every time you do it, but again, since skills are gated behind them, it's more of a requirement than anything which I find further increases the sense of grindy repetition.

Encounters aren't different? So elite, sturdy, two zombies, 4 zombies, 1 zombie, two screamers and a box etc doesn't happen? Cause it does in mine. The encounters change and thus your tactics change. The modifiers to the battlefield also change they way you approach things (Or they should.) etc.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that the tactics you use change whether it's four ghouls vs 2 ghouls and 2 screamers?

[Lantantan]

So your problem is... because you keep picking the same hero lineup, the game is unvaried. Yeah you don't say.

[StimJunky]

Originally posted by Connatic:

Originally posted by StimJunky:

Encounters aren't different at all as they're determined by the zone. So, if you're doing the same zone you see the same encounters. One-off combat items or trinkets don't change that or make it somehow different - especially when everything is gated early on by candles. By that logic running the same dungeon in DD1 would be a different experience every time because you can find different loot.

Well yeah. Mixing it up by picking it different zone, just like you would pick a different dungeon. And you aren't retracing you exact steps with the same four characters, you can mix up your team for different runs. Like it was said earlier, unlocking characters are an easy quick unlock.

Yes, story missions do add something new every time you do it, but again, since skills are gated behind them, it's more of a requirement than anything which I find further increases the sense of grindy repetition.

I can understand being frustrated you can't grab the OP meta skills you want right away, but I think it's odd to be upset about it when you don't even know what's avalible as a new player.

Please, point me to where I made any mention of OP skills because I distinctly recall expressing frustration on the grindy, repetitive nature of having to chase shrines just to change up your tactics.

[Connatic]

Originally posted by StimJunky:

Originally posted by Connatic:

Well yeah. Mixing it up by picking it different zone, just like you would pick a different dungeon. And you aren't retracing you exact steps with the same four characters, you can mix up your team for different runs. Like it was said earlier, unlocking characters are an easy quick unlock.



I can understand being frustrated you can't grab the OP meta skills you want right away, but I think it's odd to be upset about it when you don't even know what's avalible as a new player.

Please, point me to where I made any mention of OP skills because I distinctly recall expressing frustration on the grindy, repetitive nature of having to chase shrines just to change up your tactics.

I was being facetious.
You can also change up your tactics by picking different characters.

[Magni]

The irony with all this is that an old series veteran stands a decent chance to beat Denial on the first run anyway, as long as they take it seriously and manage to adapt to the changes in the combat system. Realising the act boss' gimmick and adapting your plan to it in time is about the one point where you can truly ♥♥♥♥ up, barring really bad luck in the two regions before the Mountain.

[ZeroAffex]

ItS nOt GrInDiNg.. iTs mOrE CoMplEx nOw. Dd2 iS BeTtEr bEcAuSe iTs nEw aNd hAs gOoD rEvIEwS. GrOw uP hAtErs..