Why all the hate for this game?

[(Farkon) 2m_anylootboxes]

Seems like it's genuinely is fun, but just as hard, if not harder then DD1.

Oh wait, I get it, no abomination or crusader.... Hmm yea that kinda sucks.

[Zedd's dead]

First let me say this is a good and fun game, However, I can speculate that many of the long time fans of DD1 are frustrated that they turned an extremely challenging game where you become invested in the characters your are struggling to save and develop for weeks or months into standard 3 act roguelite.

Have you played DD1? It was an extremely challenging long term strategy game. This game is insanely easy in comparison. The fights may be equally as challenging, but dying is irrelevant. If you got your characters killed in DD1 it was devastating. In this game, they just die, you get your candles, you make yourself stronger and you fling your team back into the mix and see how long they last the next time. There is no consequence whatsoever for failure. That is fine, but it is nothing like the first game at all.

DD1 required such a time commitment and had such a steep learning curve that I think the developers just wanted to make something more accessible, but in the process, they made something FAR less unique. I can name you about 10 other 3 act roguelights very similar to DD2. I would be hard pressed to find one anything like DD1 and I play a huge number of roguelights and roguelikes.

[Bushωookie]

Originally posted by 2m_anyloo̐̔͞tboxes (Farkon):

Seems like it's genuinely is fun, but just as hard, if not harder then DD1.

Oh wait, I get it, no abomination or crusader.... Hmm yea that kinda sucks.

You are missing some elements if you think that the problem of this game is the game itself.

[Ovan]

Originally posted by Zedd's dead:

Have you played DD1? It was an extremely challenging long term strategy game. This game is insanely easy in comparison. The fights may be equally as challenging, but dying is irrelevant.

This is exactly how I feel about this game.
Supposely the entire world is in peril, but losing has never been more meaningless.

[Sneep Snorp]

Most of the hate seems to be a vocal minority, Ill be honest the game is doing well reviewise and has a pretty high player count, only reason Im not playing it now myself is i played it on epic and dont wanna buy it again for 30 on here, dont be discouraged from what people are saying most of em dont even have it. Ill admit the game does have flaws, some things being said about it are quite true, and not everyone is gonna enjoy the vastly different direction they took with the wagon system, but if thats why someone doesnt like it, yeah that makes sense but as a whole, the games doing completely fine from the looks of it.

[Frost]

Too many needless changes.

Feels like a completely different game from DD1, more like a spin off or a mobile game.

[[PMC] Portable Merc Collector]

Honestly as a noob to the franchise I'm loving it! It's a bit complicated but accessible perfectly fine and gives me a reason to keep jumping in and going forward win or lose.

Now, I have not played the first one, and the biggest thing about it for me as to why I didn't grab it, was after doing some research, for me it was just.. overwhelmingly complicated for me. That's fine! People have preferences, the first one just wasn't for me, then I looked into the sequel.

It seemed like it had everything I wanted, the combat, art style and general rogue system from the first game, but simplified and made easier to understand. I can't wait for mod support and seeing people make custom characters!

That being said, I can understand why longtime fans would be upset. The reason I personally bought this game was because it didn't have permadeath in it. I like games where I can keep a central party or cast of characters and build them up to be very powerful but not without challenge. However if somebody were a fan of the cutthroat challenge of the original and the prospect of losing it all after one wrong move, this sequel would feel absolutely neutered in comparison. It would likely feel way too easy.

I understand why people may hate this game, and that's fine! But for me it's my introduction to the series, and I love it so far. Maybe I'll check the first one out further down the line when I've become skilled enough to do so, but until then, I'm glad this is my introduction to the series.

Sorry for the long winded post! Just wanted to give my thoughts.

[Bean]

Most of the negativity boils down to the game being too different from the first one. People are conditioned into consuming the same content with slight tweaks and variations and most things that try to be new and unique usually get hate, at least at first. Having the same thing over and over is comforting i guess.
People will eventually see the game for what it is, just needs time. It's like that famous windwaker situation where people hated the game because it looked too cartoony and not like previous gritty majora's mask. People love the game now. It'll probably be the same with this one eventually.
I see a lot of people saying that "the game is too easy" now. Farming for dozens of hours and then losing characters to ♥♥♥♥ RNG only to grind again isn't difficulty. "Old game rewards long term planning, while new one you can just rushdown" is another braindead take, because you literally can't do that. You still need to plan if you want to beat the game. It's just that you aren't punished by hours of boring ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ grind anymore if you screw up along the way.
Game is more focused with all of the fat trimmed out. Won't miss having to send a suicide squad of low level random guys into a high level dungeon only to skip a week for quirk treatment or to get my endless harvest guys back. Town management is cool and all until you hit the endgame where you already maxed everything out and now it's only a barrier between a player and the meat of the game.

[Amalgamation]

Here's context/perspective from someone who beat the first game on the hardest difficulty. Something only roughly 1% of the steam playerbase has done.

The simplest thing I can say the core gameplay is different in a way that unintentionally strips out so much of the PERSONAL moments you get in the first game. One of the first replies here regarding death between the two games is very accurate..... now imagine that you have a limited number of character deaths remaining (a hard mode feature) and have only a few more weeks (another hard mode feature) to beat the final dungeon. It's harrowing.......... darkest dungeon 2 doesn't even seem to have a difficulty. There no reason to even have multiple profiles from the 4 hours I've played so far.


While it sounds like I'm spiraling into negativity I'd like to step back and reference another comment above me who said they were new to the series and having a blast. That totally makes sense.

For me DD1 was a 9/10 in many of its aspects. This sequel is 7 or 8/10 on many of those same categories. And some things have been changed so much you can't even equate them. And personally none of those changes I consider better. I think DD2 is good but:

I think what gets alot of us hardcore DD1 fans upset, that many of us may not articulate, Is that alot of us can see a "true" darkest dungeon 2. It's hidden behind glimpses of the combat in DD2 (which is its best quality) and the character models. We can envision the good additions of this sequel added to the original mechanics and gameplay loop and we lament and are saddened we will not get to ever really experience that.

[[LWT]Karpiu]

Simply because the game plays different than DD1, and many DD1 players wanted DD1 2.0, rather than DD2. The focus is now on short roguelite runs that are different from each other and progressively unlocking stuff for your next runs rather than endlessly grinding your characters like in DD1.

Some like it, some don't. It's like with Diablo 1/2/3 -> Diablo 4 change with its MMO-lite features, many people dislike the fact that you're playing a forced multiplayer Diablo's spin on Lost Ark now rather than your typical "solo corridor everything is instanced" ARPG.

[Ovan]

Originally posted by Bean:

Most of the negativity boils down to the game being too different from the first one. People are conditioned into consuming the same content with slight tweaks and variations and most things that try to be new and unique usually get hate, at least at first.

Copying Slay the Spire is now considered "new" and "unique"?
You should learn the definitions of those words before using them.

[Bean]

Originally posted by Ovan:

Originally posted by Bean:

Most of the negativity boils down to the game being too different from the first one. People are conditioned into consuming the same content with slight tweaks and variations and most things that try to be new and unique usually get hate, at least at first.

Copying Slay the Spire is now considered "new" and "unique"?
You should learn the definitions of those words before using them.

If having the same map navigation system is enough to make the game "the same", then nearly all videogames are the same. Lmao

[Amalgamation]

Originally posted by Bean:

Most of the negativity boils down to the game being too different from the first one. People are conditioned into consuming the same content with slight tweaks and variations and most things that try to be new and unique usually get hate, at least at first. Having the same thing over and over is comforting i guess.
People will eventually see the game for what it is, just needs time. It's like that famous windwaker situation where people hated the game because it looked too cartoony and not like previous gritty majora's mask. People love the game now. It'll probably be the same with this one eventually.
I see a lot of people saying that "the game is too easy" now. Farming for dozens of hours and then losing characters to ♥♥♥♥ RNG only to grind again isn't difficulty. "Old game rewards long term planning, while new one you can just rushdown" is another braindead take, because you literally can't do that. You still need to plan if you want to beat the game. It's just that you aren't punished by hours of boring ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ grind anymore if you screw up along the way.
Game is more focused with all of the fat trimmed out. Won't miss having to send a suicide squad of low level random guys into a high level dungeon only to skip a week for quirk treatment or to get my endless harvest guys back. Town management is cool and all until you hit the endgame where you already maxed everything out and now it's only a barrier between a player and the meat of the game.

I don't want to get into it. But your points regarding one REEKS of someone who never touched styigian (hard) mode. Hard mode is where the true strategy of DD1 shines.

1 example: in hard mode you can't "sacrifice a low level tier set of heros to wait for the quirk building to release your mains" - hard mode has a defeat condition after about 10 heros die. You'd do your method 3 times and lose and have to restart.

Also hard mode has a week to beat the darkest dungeon time limit. There is very much no "meaningless grinding" in hard mode as every action is calculated if you want to actually win.

Some food for thought - sometimes a "braindead" take is from someone with far more experience and knowledge on the game than you do. Just because you lack the game knowledge to understand the point doesn't mean it's not valid. As your strategies don't even the work on the hard difficultly. The fact you call people braindead while your strats would be the end of your run in 10 weeks I just find very funny.

[Ovan]

Originally posted by Bean:

Originally posted by Ovan:

Copying Slay the Spire is now considered "new" and "unique"?
You should learn the definitions of those words before using them.

If having the same map navigation system is enough to make the game "the same", then nearly all videogames are the same. Lmao

I advice you my friend, that dictionaries are freely avaliable online.
Having copied the gameplay loop of another game doesn't make them the same...but at the same time, hardly "new" and "unique".

[Snobby Hobo]

Originally posted by Bean:

Most of the negativity boils down to the game being too different from the first one. People are conditioned into consuming the same content with slight tweaks and variations and most things that try to be new and unique usually get hate, at least at first. Having the same thing over and over is comforting i guess.
People will eventually see the game for what it is, just needs time. It's like that famous windwaker situation where people hated the game because it looked too cartoony and not like previous gritty majora's mask. People love the game now. It'll probably be the same with this one eventually.
I see a lot of people saying that "the game is too easy" now. Farming for dozens of hours and then losing characters to ♥♥♥♥ RNG only to grind again isn't difficulty. "Old game rewards long term planning, while new one you can just rushdown" is another braindead take, because you literally can't do that. You still need to plan if you want to beat the game. It's just that you aren't punished by hours of boring ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ grind anymore if you screw up along the way.
Game is more focused with all of the fat trimmed out. Won't miss having to send a suicide squad of low level random guys into a high level dungeon only to skip a week for quirk treatment or to get my endless harvest guys back. Town management is cool and all until you hit the endgame where you already maxed everything out and now it's only a barrier between a player and the meat of the game.

Exactly.

The primary reason people flock to call DD2 bad at the moment is just because it isn't DD1. That's literally it too. With nonsensical arguments like pretending the Hamlet was "long time strategy" (lmao).

People got attached to DD1 as a formula and for understandable reasons, but it has blinded them from its flaws. DD1 was a horrible slow grind that actively dissuaded the player from trying new things. DD2 tried to battle that by allowing you to try and try again at no risk of having to jump through the same hoops for another dozen hours again.

DD2 has a lot of issues, but not being DD1 isn't one of them.

[Bean]

Originally posted by Amalgamation:

Originally posted by Bean:

Most of the negativity boils down to the game being too different from the first one. People are conditioned into consuming the same content with slight tweaks and variations and most things that try to be new and unique usually get hate, at least at first. Having the same thing over and over is comforting i guess.
People will eventually see the game for what it is, just needs time. It's like that famous windwaker situation where people hated the game because it looked too cartoony and not like previous gritty majora's mask. People love the game now. It'll probably be the same with this one eventually.
I see a lot of people saying that "the game is too easy" now. Farming for dozens of hours and then losing characters to ♥♥♥♥ RNG only to grind again isn't difficulty. "Old game rewards long term planning, while new one you can just rushdown" is another braindead take, because you literally can't do that. You still need to plan if you want to beat the game. It's just that you aren't punished by hours of boring ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ grind anymore if you screw up along the way.
Game is more focused with all of the fat trimmed out. Won't miss having to send a suicide squad of low level random guys into a high level dungeon only to skip a week for quirk treatment or to get my endless harvest guys back. Town management is cool and all until you hit the endgame where you already maxed everything out and now it's only a barrier between a player and the meat of the game.

I don't want to get into it. But your points regarding one REEKS of someone who never touched styigian (hard) mode. Hard mode is where the true strategy of DD1 shines.

1 example: in hard mode you can't "sacrifice a low level tier of heros to wait for the quirk building to release your mains" - hard mode has a defeat condition after about 10 heros die. You'd do your method 3 times and lose and have to restart.

Also hard mode has a week to beat the darkest dungeon time limit. There is very much no "meaningless grinding" in hard mode as every action is calculated if you want to actually win.

Some food for thought - sometimes a "braindead" take is from someone with far more experience and knowledge on the game than you do. Just because you lack the game knowledge to understand the point doesn't mean it's not valid.

I have over 200h in the first game and i did do stygian till around week 60 or so. "I'm more experienced" is invalid. Yes, you can't send suicide squads to skip time anymore so you have to do short pointless missions from start to finish now instead of skipping a week. 82 week limit isn't that bad and you can do a bunch of throwaway missions to skip time. Except it just isn't fun to do.
Death limit is the real kicker on stygian, because it shows just how unfun the game can be. You will be restarting the entire save file, and probably multiple times at that. Repeating the first introductory steps over and over, grinding characters up over and over. All experimentation and fun builds die there, you always need stuns, you always need stress healers, you always want to have eldritch and beast slayer quirks for the final dungeon, and you can't even entertain the idea of having negative quirks related to those two or you will get bodied in the darkest dungeon. Stygian is great at showing just how truly awful the city build management part of the game can be.