Just Generally Disappointed

[CJD]

Let me start by saying a few things. DD2 was one of my most anticipated games in years. I was biting my teeth waiting for it to come out. When March rolled around and I went to see if it was out yet, and heard about the delay for the first time, I was devastated, and for the past week I've been just so excited to play it. Bought it the moment it went on sale today, and have been playing it on and off all day (play time is inflated due to alternating between gameplay and work). And, most of all, obviously, I LOVED DD1.

I don't /hate/ DD2. I don't even dislike it. I'm having fun playing it and I'll probably get triple digit hours out of it just like I did the first game.

But my god, all that said, I am just so utterly and immensely disappointed. Maybe its my fault for not immersing myself in what little coverage the game got while it was in EA. I figured with the way EA works, anything I read or heard would be irrelevant by the time 1.0 came out. What little I saw or read, I never saw anything about how utterly completely different the game is from DD1. It just seemed like a bigger version of the game. Instead of "dungeon runs" you had "carriage runs." Instead of the grid based system, you had a branching tree of paths. It just seemed, from gameplay footage and trailers, to be more of the same, but bigger and better.

And that's alll I wanted. DD1 is my favorite roguelite (don't @ me by claiming it's not a roguelite, it is by any sane, good faith definition of the word). I recommend it to everyone who I know likes the genre. I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ loved that game. All I wanted was more, bigger, and better. And I got something completely different. I've literally bought and refunded dozens of games on Steam chasing the rush I got from DD1 and never found like it (at least not as good), and I'd given up hope I would except from the creators of the game itself.

I'm just so disappointed, man. I don't hate it but why? Why would you change it up so completely? Why try to reinvent the wheel when you had the perfect formula nailed down? This ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sucks, man.

[Flavalicious]

The why is because Slay the Spire dropped and was incredibly popular and i guess it convinced them to change directions

Fair number of us had the same reaction last year when footage dropped

[Narrowmind]

What do you have to say for the asking price and "discount?"

[Kozzy]

You can go back and play the first game any time you want.
The first game is one of my most played games on steam, I have given this new one a proper chance though and I am loving it. Despite putting a silly amount of hours on the 1st game, the devs have done a great job of not making this Darkest Dungeon 1.5. Has some great new additions and still has the feel of the first game imo.

[Narrowmind]

When you think of Borderlands, do you think Borderlands 2 is Borderlands 1.5?

[CJD]

Originally posted by Flavalicious:

The why is because Slay the Spire dropped and was incredibly popular and i guess it convinced them to change directions

Fair number of us had the same reaction last year when footage dropped

What's crazy is I LOVE Slay the Spire. I've got hundreds of hours in that too, and that's my second favorite roguelike. It's literally the only game I have on my phone (bought it a second time because its the perfect game to play in waiting rooms and what not). But I didn't /want/ or expect Slay the Spire. I wanted Darkest Dungeon 2, man. I wanted permadeath for my guys. I wanted persistent growth of my guys. I wanted to become attached to them and protect them and feel devastated when they died and now I lost Reynauld and he's been with me since the beginning and I'm literally praying for the random event that lets me resurrect a character to pop up and let me bring him back. I get none of that here. Each run is just self contained, and if my guys die they don't "die" because they're just back there waiting for me.

Originally posted by Ratlegion:

What do you have to say for the asking price and "discount?"

Asking price was fine. Anyone who expected it to be cheaper was high. $30-$40 was exactly what I expected and was willing to pay, and I got it for $30 since I own the first one. I have 212 hours in DD1. If I get half that out of DD2 $30 is a steal.

Originally posted by Kozzy:

You can go back and play the first game any time you want.
The first game is one of my most played games on steam, I have given this new one a proper chance though and I am loving it. Despite putting a silly amount of hours on the 1st game, the devs have done a great job of not making this Darkest Dungeon 1.5. Has some great new additions and still has the feel of the first game imo.

Except I /beat/ the first one. I even did all the curator tasks except get Flag to 6. I don't want to just go redo all the content I already did. Where's the fun in that? I spent 200 hours across multiple runs fighting, grinding, and finally overcoming the challenge. That's the point of a challenge, you overcome it and you move onto the next one.

[Connatic]

Originally posted by Flavalicious:

The why is because Slay the Spire dropped and was incredibly popular and i guess it convinced them to change directions

Fair number of us had the same reaction last year when footage dropped

I mean the progression mechanics are closer to Hades than Slay the Spire, but I agree. Many people had a knee jerk reaction when the saw a map with forked paths.

[quote=CJD;3830918635774415136
What's crazy is I LOVE Slay the Spire. I've got hundreds of hours in that too, and that's my second favorite roguelike. It's literally the only game I have on my phone (bought it a second time because its the perfect game to play in waiting rooms and what not). But I didn't /want/ or expect Slay the Spire. ... [/quote]
Well it's nothing like Slay the Spire, maybe that's why you don't like it. It ISN'T actually like your favorite roguelite of all time.

[Flavalicious]

Originally posted by Connatic:

Originally posted by Flavalicious:

The why is because Slay the Spire dropped and was incredibly popular and i guess it convinced them to change directions

Fair number of us had the same reaction last year when footage dropped

I mean the progression mechanics are closer to Hades than Slay the Spire, but I agree. Many people had a knee jerk reaction when the saw a map with forked paths.

[quote=CJD;3830918635774415136
What's crazy is I LOVE Slay the Spire. I've got hundreds of hours in that too, and that's my second favorite roguelike. It's literally the only game I have on my phone (bought it a second time because its the perfect game to play in waiting rooms and what not). But I didn't /want/ or expect Slay the Spire. ...

Well it's nothing like Slay the Spire, maybe that's why you don't like it. It ISN'T actually like your favorite roguelite of all time. [/quote]

Main thing is StS came out during early development, where as Hades came much later, but your point still stands on that front.

[Fubous]

I initially didn't like the change in design, but it grew on me and honestly, as much as I loved DD1, I think I enjoy playing this more, despite some grievances.

Originally posted by CJD:

But I didn't /want/ or expect Slay the Spire. I wanted Darkest Dungeon 2, man.

it's not like STS, and you should have paid attention, from the very start it was known this game wasn't like DD1.

[Jelly]

I'm withholding a store review for now but so far it seems like the early game is massively over-tuned. 40% of players already have the achievement for wiping to the first boss and I'd guess even more have wiped to the first lair boss.

It's going to get easier as I grind meta-progression buffs but I think it's lazy design to take agency away from the player and FORCE them to die until they're allowed to win. The radiant torch mechanic makes it pretty obvious that this is intended.

Until you gather enough pity points you're only watching the game play itself.

[Snobby Hobo]

Originally posted by Dirge:

I'm withholding a store review for now but so far it seems like the early game is massively over-tuned. 40% of players already have the achievement for wiping to the first boss and I'd guess even more have wiped to the first lair boss.

It's going to get easier as I grind meta-progression buffs but I think it's lazy design to take agency away from the player and FORCE them to die until they're allowed to win. The radiant torch mechanic makes it pretty obvious that this is intended.

Until you gather enough pity points you're only watching the game play itself.

I don't actually disagree with this, but it's not as bad as you might think. In DD1 you absolutely HAD to level characters or there was just no possible way to proceed without divine luck.

DD2 has this very ugly juxtaposition: the early game is where you need game knowledge the most but have the least, whereas the late game is where you have the most options while you learned how to best deal with few of them available. It's like progression and experience are in conflict.

Overall I have a lot of problems with DD2, but I'm almost convinced this is a superior model to the insane grind that was DD1.

Originally posted by Connatic:

comment

I reaction to your previous reply to me: they do justify the coach better in the newer version - but I still find it quite bland. Part of the reason I liked STS is because it is a really snappy game. Red Hook has this obsession with making everything "slow".

[Slushy]

Doesn't feel like an adventure anymore is probably the best way I can explain how I feel about it, despite the premise being more of an adventure then dd1 was considering its literally just traveling. Roguelike focus instead of RPG focus. I've been having fun with it, but it does feel like they dumbed it down. For better and worst, depending on what you like about the original game.

[Punished Jeremy]

Originally posted by CJD:

I'm just so disappointed, man. I don't hate it but why? Why would you change it up so completely? Why try to reinvent the wheel when you had the perfect formula nailed down? This ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sucks, man.

If this is your stance then I dont understand why you think Darkest Dungeon needed a sequel. The mod support is going to keep that game going for years. People are already calling Black Reliquary Darkest Dungeon 1.5. If they just repeated exactly what they did in the first game with more complicated graphics and systems then it would be harder to mod and not different enough to justify switching

For every person on this board who is complaining that the game is too different there is someone who in the reality you got the game you wanted they complain its too similar

[CJD]

Originally posted by Fubous:

I initially didn't like the change in design, but it grew on me and honestly, as much as I loved DD1, I think I enjoy playing this more, despite some grievances.

Originally posted by CJD:

But I didn't /want/ or expect Slay the Spire. I wanted Darkest Dungeon 2, man.

it's not like STS, and you should have paid attention, from the very start it was known this game wasn't like DD1.

Cool, I was merely responding to the comparison to STS. I know its not STS, but thanks for stating that. It didn't need to be said, but you did! Also, I'm curious, do you intentionally mean to sound like a ♥♥♥♥ by saying "you should have paid attention" or is that accidental? Like, no ♥♥♥♥, I admitted I didn't do a deep dive into the game before it came out. That's why I said I'm disappointed.

Originally posted by Punished Jeremy:

Originally posted by CJD:

I'm just so disappointed, man. I don't hate it but why? Why would you change it up so completely? Why try to reinvent the wheel when you had the perfect formula nailed down? This ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sucks, man.

If this is your stance then I dont understand why you think Darkest Dungeon needed a sequel. The mod support is going to keep that game going for years. People are already calling Black Reliquary Darkest Dungeon 1.5. If they just repeated exactly what they did in the first game with more complicated graphics and systems then it would be harder to mod and not different enough to justify switching

For every person on this board who is complaining that the game is too different there is someone who in the reality you got the game you wanted they complain its too similar

Two things: Mods are not a replacement for a full fledged, fully funded and developed sequel. They're nice, but they're often buggy, unbalanced, end up half finished, and generally are mid experiences.

Secondly, sequels are supposed to be similar to the original... That's why they're sequels and not new IPs....

[ElnoSVK]

Originally posted by Dirge:

I'm withholding a store review for now but so far it seems like the early game is massively over-tuned. 40% of players already have the achievement for wiping to the first boss and I'd guess even more have wiped to the first lair boss.

It's going to get easier as I grind meta-progression buffs but I think it's lazy design to take agency away from the player and FORCE them to die until they're allowed to win. The radiant torch mechanic makes it pretty obvious that this is intended.

Until you gather enough pity points you're only watching the game play itself.

Dont forget, that many players from EGS bought it on Steam and transfered save. Also with 1.0 there is an "easy" mode and now only 13% have this achievement...

[Punished Jeremy]

Originally posted by CJD:

Two things: Mods are not a replacement for a full fledged, fully funded and developed sequel. They're nice, but they're often buggy, unbalanced, end up half finished, and generally are mid experiences.

Secondly, sequels are supposed to be similar to the original... That's why they're sequels and not new IPs....

Most out of touch take on the modding community, in gaming in general

You must come from an alternate reality where nobody has ever complained that a sequel is too similar and doesn’t build upon itself enough. Sounds dull. The problem with that argument is it doesn’t mean anything. Sometimes sequels that are completely different are still good on there own merits. I think you just don’t like what’s on offer and your reaching for anything you can use and “they changed it from what it was” is an easy EXCUSE to substantiate your other more subjective takes