Pool of Reflection is silly. Make candles useful please.

[Grimwulf]

At the moment there is no incentive to use Stygian Blaze and other flames for extra candles, at least after you unlock everything in the game (which only takes 40 hours or less). Completing a run gives no satisfaction or sense of progress.

Give us some use for those candles. A couple suggestions:

1. Expand Timeless Void - give us an option to remove negative quirks and diseases from characters with memories. Currently we have to stock up on trait-removing Inn items during expeditions, and heal them at the last stop before the mountain, just so the characters end up "clean". It's a minor inconvenience that adds unnecessary micromanagement. Would be grand if we could do that for candles.

2. Loot boxes. After unlocking everything in the working fields, the players would have an option to purchase a loot box for, say, 50 candles. This box can be unpacked in the Valley Inn to reveal an assortment of trinkets, stagecoach items and combat items - all random, of course. We won't know what we get until after we assemble a party, so no breaking the balance this way. And it only makes sense, because right now it's punishing to unlock everything in the working fields - we no longer get free stuff.

3. Ridiculously expensive character monuments that grant minor buffs to specific characters. Same as DD1 blueprints. Spend 2000 candles on Jester's monument (or building, whatever) - get a +10% crit chance on Finale. The point is, by making a bunch of ridiculously expensive buildings you add hundreds of playtime hours before the game runs out of juice. It's a minor thing, but it's still some sense of progression. Which we sorely lack at the moment.

[Huge Beard Guy]

Originally posted by Grimwulf:

Pool of Reflection is silly. Make candles useful please.

I agree, I agree and I agree.

[The Face]

IF they let you remove quirks, it needs to be like one. The dudes "off the stage coach" are meant to be kinda butts.

My favourite idea was either the loot box thing. Or allowing to roll on items like how you did to unlike them. Even at a higher price. Like 10 candles to roll on a random trinket or inn item at the start

[HighLanderPony]

If you need tiny extrinsic motivators to keep playing, maybe it's time to do something else.

[Frostea]

Originally posted by HighLanderPony:

If you need tiny extrinsic motivators to keep playing, maybe it's time to do something else.

The problem is that there are still quest rewards that give candles even after you unlock everything.

This same problem exists with hero shrines. You can do all of the hero stories and they will still show up.

It literally wastes a “turn” in both cases so to speak.

[Grimwulf]

Originally posted by HighLanderPony:

If you need tiny extrinsic motivators to keep playing, maybe it's time to do something else.

Would you kindly read the first sentence of the original post before leaving such comments?

A lot of game mechanics revolve around candles. We're supposed to use Stygian Blaze for the sake of getting more candles. Complete hero goals, decide whether or not BH is worth the cost in candles, make room for candles in our stagecoach, use unfavorable routes just because there are more candles there, etc etc.

Current implementation of candles make all of the above pointless. It's not about "oh boi, I have no motivation to play, what do I do now"

[gruetoo]

Originally posted by Frostea:

Originally posted by HighLanderPony:

If you need tiny extrinsic motivators to keep playing, maybe it's time to do something else.

This same problem exists with hero shrines. You can do all of the hero stories and they will still show up.

Demonstrably false. If you have no heroes with shrine unlocks available, they do not generate.

[stun]

A better solution would be to remove candles

[Pixel Peeper]

Originally posted by stun:

A better solution would be to remove candles

This would come with its own set of problems.

New players would be overwhelmed by having access to too much all at once (every class, every path, every trinket and combat item and stagecoach item and inn item), without being able to try each of them as they are unlocked. They would have to start every run with nothing. Hero goals would have to be removed entirely. The candle bonus/penalty on Flames would become meaningless.

It would be much easier (and much more interesting) to simply have an option to spend them that's always available.

[Pixel Peeper]

I'm picturing a shop.

2/4/10/15 candles for a random trinket (depending on quality), or triple the cost for a specific trinket.

Different price schemes for combat items, stagecoach items and inn items.

And then some really big bonus options, like 40 candles to recruit the Bounty Hunter for the entire next run, 45 for a random trophy, or 90 for a specific trophy.

Something along those lines, to make candles matter and add a short, unobtrusive element of preparation between runs.

[Masoterian]

great posts, here's another idea : expensive past / reflection skins for characters ! those are clearly in the game so i dont understand why we cant unlock them, make it 100 candles per character and lets go.

[Pixel Peeper]

Originally posted by Masoterian:

great posts, here's another idea : expensive past / reflection skins for characters ! those are clearly in the game so i dont understand why we cant unlock them, make it 100 candles per character and lets go.

They're listed on the roadmap. Not sure why they aren't available for unlock yet, maybe they need to be modified to be compatible with certain animations.

[stun]

Originally posted by Pixel Peeper:

New players would be overwhelmed by having access to too much all at once (every class, every path, every trinket and combat item and stagecoach item and inn item), without being able to try each of them as they are unlocked.

That's complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Originally posted by Pixel Peeper:

They would have to start every run with nothing. Hero goals would have to be removed entirely.

These are HUGE benefits.

Originally posted by Pixel Peeper:

The candle bonus/penalty on Flames would become meaningless.

It already is.

[Frostea]

Originally posted by Pixel Peeper:

Originally posted by stun:

A better solution would be to remove candles

This would come with its own set of problems.

New players would be overwhelmed by having access to too much all at once (every class, every path, every trinket and combat item and stagecoach item and inn item), without being able to try each of them as they are unlocked. They would have to start every run with nothing. Hero goals would have to be removed entirely. The candle bonus/penalty on Flames would become meaningless.

It would be much easier (and much more interesting) to simply have an option to spend them that's always available.

Games like dwarf fortress give you access to everything as soon as the game starts. And it works just fine.

The candles as they are implemented are an objectively bad design choice that do nothing but pad out game time. Just so that one person doesn’t complain about the game being “too short”.

[pan1154]

Once everything in the altar of hope is upgraded, maybe they can make bounty hunter available at every inn ready to take up your candles upfront.

[Pixel Peeper]

Originally posted by Frostea:

Games like dwarf fortress give you access to everything as soon as the game starts. And it works just fine.

The candles as they are implemented are an objectively bad design choice that do nothing but pad out game time. Just so that one person doesn’t complain about the game being “too short”.

Ah yes. Dwarf Fortress, the most approachable, newbie-friendly game.

This is a run-based game. Its "length" depends entirely on how long you have fun playing it.

The candle system exists to provide the content to players in workable chunks and to let them try out each item as it is unlocked (by giving said item to you when you unlock it), as well as make successful runs feel more rewarding. I think it's a good thing, though them serving virtually no purpose (Memories would be the only thing) once everything is unlocked is a problem. That would be fixed by having a way to spend them.