Ouroboros symbol

[Anybody owns Wii U?]

Can someone please explain to me the whole Ouroboros symbol conspiracy?

[Azrael]

Do you know what Ouroboros actually represents?

The ouroboros is often interpreted as a symbol for eternal cyclic renewal or a cycle of life, death and rebirth; the snake's skin-sloughing symbolises the transmigration of souls.

The game is about immortality and changing bodies. I'm pretty sure you can connect the dots.

[Ontological Conundrum]

Originally posted by Lord_Rive:

Do you know what Ouroboros actually represents?

The ouroboros is often interpreted as a symbol for eternal cyclic renewal or a cycle of life, death and rebirth; the snake's skin-sloughing symbolises the transmigration of souls.

The game is about immortality and changing bodies. I'm pretty sure you can connect the dots.

there are no dots to connect. The game wants you to kill yourself, and is just spouting "immortality bad" in your face

[Mononoke Himmmme]

I think the question is not about the symbol in general for the whole story. I get the connection - they devoured themselves in an attempt to become gods. Literally. That's great. The question is, how accurate is the appearance of the serpent symbol?

A lot of unanswered questions:
Who came up with the idea of this symbol and why? I mean, the characters in the game.
No explanation.
What are those dates that were carved with the symbol?
Who created this poison?
How did Rachel use it? Did she create it? (We know that her achorite was fried by the same kind of poison.)
For most of the story, it felt like the killer made the poison.
But in the end, it appears that it's all in your head and there is no “killer.”
Which is not bad at all.
But then the serpent and the poison become just a crack in the plot.
Which is disappointing and confusing.

[thisserviceismadeoffail]

Seemed to me like Green came up with the poison. Would make sense to keep something on hand to counteract the thing you introduced to the world. Exactly the sort of failsafe you'd want, too, in case anyone learns too much. Or maybe something you'd come up with once you knew the ramifications of the ticking timebomb of desynchro psychosis, and began looking into your options regarding it, before deciding on the "burn it all down" option.

[Clown Reemus]

On the point of symbolical use of Ouroboros in the narrative - it's null, the superificiality of this can be picked up by even the most rural literature teachers. It's used for a very thinly veiled "we got deep stuff in our game" effect, without any finer thought put into how to position the concept of Ouroboros in the game's narrative.

But hey, statistically, most uses of Ouroboros in modern art is just that - terribly concepted superificiliaty.

[pleasethankyourtank]

I posted this in my own thread earlier. Here ya go.



The ouroboros has everything to do with the story of the game. The ouroboros represents the concepts of eternity, the cyclical nature of time, and the end of times connecting to the beginnings of time, which are all themes directly referenced in the game, pretty bluntly honestly. The ouroboros represents an endless cycle and several things in the games are that as well.

Obviously bodies, as well as the plans of Koborov and Greene to disrupt the cycle and try to put an end to it. Their elaborate murder-suicide plan was done to end their own cycles of life, as well as to plunge the city into chaos by trying to take out all of the people involved in perpetuating the cycle (cops, security companies, architects, people trying to lower the subscription age). After the burning of Icarus, (also history repeating itself) James' has a monologue atop his car very clearly stating the endless cycle of this life. It was something along the lines of "Is immortality worth it when you have to spend eternity working minimum wage to pay for it?".

James' suicide in the good ending is very heavy symbolism for his rebirth. Rebirth is kind of the entire plot of the game. The end meeting with the beginning is also something incredibly obvious. When you go to back to Greene's apartment, James literally says out loud "It always ends where it began", which is something that can be applied to most of the last hour or so of the game. The entire train section is the second to last area of the game where James' past actions (the ones that directly set up the events of the game) converge with James in the present.

The metaphor and symbolism for the ouroboros is incredibly strong and well done. Like art, sometimes mysteries are more about the absence of shape than the shape itself. The murder mystery is something incredibly straight forward which while incredibly intelligent, the true mystery is everything else.

[pleasethankyourtank]

Originally posted by Mononoke Himmmme:

I think the question is not about the symbol in general for the whole story. I get the connection - they devoured themselves in an attempt to become gods. Literally. That's great. The question is, how accurate is the appearance of the serpent symbol?

A lot of unanswered questions:
Who came up with the idea of this symbol and why? I mean, the characters in the game.
No explanation.
What are those dates that were carved with the symbol?
Who created this poison?
How did Rachel use it? Did she create it? (We know that her achorite was fried by the same kind of poison.)
For most of the story, it felt like the killer made the poison.
But in the end, it appears that it's all in your head and there is no “killer.”
Which is not bad at all.
But then the serpent and the poison become just a crack in the plot.
Which is disappointing and confusing.

Koborov and Greene did not want to become gods, they were trying to escape from the endless cycle of their lives. They planned an elaborate murder suicide plot while also trying to plunge the city into chaos by disrupting the endless cycle of ichorite. In Icarus, Koborov killed politicians trying to lower the subscription ages, people who ran private security companies, cops, and Boyle who was the great grandson of the creator ichorite, as well as the current heir to their fortune. Their psychosis was so out of control they didn't want to be brought back and for it to get worse, why else would they destroy the ichorite?

I really don't think there is any sort of cults in the game.

[Clown Reemus]

Originally posted by pleasethankyourtank:

Originally posted by Mononoke Himmmme:

I think the question is not about the symbol in general for the whole story. I get the connection - they devoured themselves in an attempt to become gods. Literally. That's great. The question is, how accurate is the appearance of the serpent symbol?

A lot of unanswered questions:
Who came up with the idea of this symbol and why? I mean, the characters in the game.
No explanation.
What are those dates that were carved with the symbol?
Who created this poison?
How did Rachel use it? Did she create it? (We know that her achorite was fried by the same kind of poison.)
For most of the story, it felt like the killer made the poison.
But in the end, it appears that it's all in your head and there is no “killer.”
Which is not bad at all.
But then the serpent and the poison become just a crack in the plot.
Which is disappointing and confusing.

Koborov and Greene did not want to become gods, they were trying to escape from the endless cycle of their lives. They planned an elaborate murder suicide plot while also trying to plunge the city into chaos by disrupting the endless cycle of ichorite. In Icarus, Koborov killed politicians trying to lower the subscription ages, people who ran private security companies, cops, and Boyle who was the great grandson of the creator ichorite, as well as the current heir to their fortune. Their psychosis was so out of control they didn't want to be brought back and for it to get worse, why else would they destroy the ichorite?

I really don't think there is any sort of cults in the game.

Are you seriously asking "why else" in a detective game? The foundation of the genre is that there can't be one obvious line of reasoning until the very finale - which answers no questions in this game - and examining various motivations and chronologies is a norm. Just because you don't see another explanation for the intention behind the crime, it doesn't mean there aren't other plausible interpretations. In theory, not talking about this game.

[Captain Cuddles]

Urobouros is the final boss of the 1st Bravely Default game. OOOPPPS, spoilers!

[MoreEvilSquid]

What makes no sense whatsoever is the fact that everyone's consciousness if forced to stay "alive" - even if you can't pay for your body (and someone else gets it), your consciousness is stored in the "bank". Until....? When? Eventually someone removes you? Why the hell would someone both removing anyone from there, unless said individual was noteworthy to them, noteworthy in general, or rich (in which case they're already on the way into a new body ASAP).

Considering the size of the chambers that are used to house SO MANY consciousnesses... imagine how much that would cost...

Seems like a very strange thing to do, considering that all the rich rulers want to do is stay rich and engage in debauchery. What possible incentive is there to keep everyone who was ever born alive perpetually in some kind of weird memory bank thing?

That part makes no sense. It would make MUCH more sense if, when you couldn't pay for your body, your consciousness is just overwritten or something.

The whole body rental thing seems ridiculously convoluted - yeah I get rich people want bodies available they can hop into, but one would think they'd just overwrite personalities without a second thought.

Even if this would be "too much" for people to deal with, 1) they could just do it anyway and not tell anyone (events in the game show they're more than capable of doing whatever they want and covering it up), and 2) it wouldn't be hard to sell this idea as some kind of punishment for crimes (whether it's theft, murder, or missing too many payments).

[lakariana]

I think it's implied that they were picking and choosing who to store in the bank, or after time they disposed of the consciousness. Originally, ethically they sold it as temporary until your loved ones can afford to buy your body back but over time and anyone without loved ones just got tossed or used in their sex death games and whatever else Green was experimenting with. He had his friend in a statue in his apartment. And had the orphans in his basement as empty shells.

Also I think as a society they were moralising that they weren't farming bodies by murdering poor people because they were just stored to be reunited later. To be honest I was surprised Taylor was still there was fully expecting to hear she wasn't in the bank, maybe that was too bleak.

[WhisperFire26]

Originally posted by Anybody owns Wii U?:

Can someone please explain to me the whole Ouroboros symbol conspiracy?

Ouroboros: Ancient Greek Origin, Snake devouring its own tail
Meaning 1: the concept of eternity and endless return
Meaning 2: represent the eternal cycle of destruction and rebirth

hope that helps