Time Loop? Predestined? I have questions

[Panpan2019]

So, after closing the time loop, there are some small problems. Home come I still have the Mobius Ring? Shoudnt that start the Time Loop again? Also, I only started the quest because I equipped the ring. Upon finishing it, I told my past self not to use it. Lets say my past self then gets locked out of the universe because they did the quest wrong. Well, if my past self got locked out of the universe, how come my current character is alive and kicking. I technically never broke the curse. Or is the me that is locked out of the universe in a different, parallel universe? And if so, when did I leave the first universe to enter another one. Or, actually, if in giving the Mobius Ring to my past self, I eliminated the possibilty of myself/my past self getting locked out of the universe. Also, technically, there are an infinite amount of versions of each character but also not. If each and every version of me does the predestined ending, (which is impossible because there are infinite versions), then there are infinite me's. It goes like this, I get the ring, do the quest, give the ring to my past self, keep existing, then my past self who gets the ring puts it on and does everything else, rinse and repeat, there are infinite me's. But if one single one of these me's does not break the curse and gets locked out of the universe the cycle is broken and the universe may or may not collapse. SOMEBODY PLEASE ANSWER ME IM GOING MAD

[Du-Vu]

So....

I don't claim to be a logician or physicist or mathematician or anything. But. As far as I understand it:

There's only one you, in one universe, at different points in your personal timeline. There are no infinite alternate recursive versions of you. It's all the same timeline. It doesn't branch, it only loops back on itself.

Everything you do in the present, your past self will eventually do as well. Everything your future selves do, then, you have to do as well. Otherwise, the resulting paradox will spit you back out back before you didn't do it -- if Delphine House is any kind of indication. It's not as dramatic elsewhere, but note how the game greys out options your future self didn't say when you're talking to your past self.

Note also that when future you gave the then-present you the ring, they told you the exact same thing you're saying: don't put it on. But you put it on anyway. So will past you, because that's what you already *did* do in the past. The paradox collapsing the universe just seems to mean preventing the alternate choice from forming in the first place.

...Unless you were to somehow leave normal time and space altogether, without having done the things your future self already did before going through the portal. In which case you're stranded forever because you've created a paradox, but (apparently?) the paradox can't find you to collapse around you and return to the point before you broke causality... because you're outside of causality. Or whatever.

Apparently the universe is resilient enough to survive the unresolved paradox, though, with or without you. So at least there's that.

And the reason you still have the Mobius ring at the end is because you go into Delphine House wearing the ring you put on -- then you pick up the ring your future self (the one with the hook hand) left in the box. So at that point you have two Mobius rings. You then give one to your past self, but are still wearing the other -- your future self didn't put it in the box until they lost the hand, and they didn't lose the hand until some point after the final battle, years in your future. So at that point, there's no paradox -- you've done everything your future self did. Everything you always did. The time loop is, for the moment, complete, stable, and consistent.

...until if and when you do something to screw it up again. But that's outside the scope of this game.

If you find that logic confusing or contradictory, even maddening -- that's kind of the point. ELDRITCH HORROR.

Soooo...

The only way to avoid the curse of the ring, then, is if you never take the ring in the first place. If you never took the ring, your future self never gave it to you, and as a result they never had it in the first place, so there's no paradox. To avoid taking the ring, you can just avoid talking to your future self beyond a certain point. Or ever, at all. Not talking to your future self, in fact, spares you from *all* of this craziness.

[Halfshell]

Originally posted by Du-Vu:

So....

[...]

Apparently the universe is resilient enough to survive the unresolved paradox, though, with or without you. So at least there's that.

This is such a breath of fresh air in this trope. FR everytime theres a paradox in any show or game the entire universe implodes around it. How could the universe survive a day across billions of lives on each of billions of worlds and more, if all it takes is 1 misstep that doesn't even have to be sentient enough to understand thats their future or past self?

[Panpan2019]

Originally posted by Halfshell:

Originally posted by Du-Vu:

So....

[...]

Apparently the universe is resilient enough to survive the unresolved paradox, though, with or without you. So at least there's that.

This is such a breath of fresh air in this trope. FR everytime theres a paradox in any show or game the entire universe implodes around it. How could the universe survive a day across billions of lives on each of billions of worlds and more, if all it takes is 1 misstep that doesn't even have to be sentient enough to understand thats their future or past self?

I agree! There is so much going on in this game that is undiscovered or a mystery, like all this time paradox stuff. I hope we find out more in the DLC, with more time travel and whatnot. I think it would be cool if we saw ourself with a hook hand in the next game though...

[Panpan2019]

Originally posted by Panpan2019:

Originally posted by Halfshell:

This is such a breath of fresh air in this trope. FR everytime theres a paradox in any show or game the entire universe implodes around it. How could the universe survive a day across billions of lives on each of billions of worlds and more, if all it takes is 1 misstep that doesn't even have to be sentient enough to understand thats their future or past self?

I agree! There is so much going on in this game that is undiscovered or a mystery, like all this time paradox stuff. I hope we find out more in the DLC, with more time travel and whatnot. I think it would be cool if we saw ourself with a hook hand in the next game though...

Also, something I hope the DLC, or a future game, will cover, is the Temporal Anomalies at Crystaldream lake. We don't know what is causing time to loop, why we keep running into our future selves (besides the Mobius Ring encounter), and why all these anomalies are happening around Crystaldream Lake of all places. Also, all the wierd time doors and toilets that are appearing. So many mysteries!

[Halfshell]

Originally posted by Panpan2019:

I think it would be cool if we saw ourself with a hook hand in the next game though...

A seafaring game would definitely be welcome, though I'm a sucker for islands myself.

Originally posted by Panpan2019:

Also, something I hope the DLC, or a future game, will cover, is the Temporal Anomalies at Crystaldream lake.

I think this is the most requested (and only requested) DLC. For different time travel related things ofc but I'd say it likely any related DLC would offer related explanations.

[Panpan2019]

Yeah... I certainly hope so!

[Du-Vu]

My pet theory is that we're going to see how we ended up as employee of the month at all those random places, maybe find a use for unused items like the mobius pipe.

[Panpan2019]

Originally posted by Du-Vu:

My pet theory is that we're going to see how we ended up as employee of the month at all those random places, maybe find a use for unused items like the mobius pipe.

That would be so much fun. One of my personal highlights from all the Loathing games is arguing with the narrarator. Also, speak of our etherial friend, it is proven that the narrarator from SOL is the same as in WOL. In the maggot pile in Haim Quarry, if you ask for descriptions, the narrarator says "This is too gross for even me to describe, and i'm the one who did the Spittons." I wonder if we will ever discover the origin of the narrarator, make visit the narrarator realm or play as the narrarator? Who knows?

[Halfshell]

I want say that I want to fight the narrator. But imagine winning and theres just noone left to narrate? Perfect example of damned either way lamentation.

Also narrator would just cheat anyway like when a DM has had too much of your ♥♥♥♥ and you get struck by lightning! Or bears spawn out of a rift on your face. Etcetera.

[Panpan2019]

Originally posted by Halfshell:

I want say that I want to fight the narrator. But imagine winning and theres just noone left to narrate? Perfect example of damned either way lamentation.

Also narrator would just cheat anyway like when a DM has had too much of your ♥♥♥♥ and you get struck by lightning! Or bears spawn out of a rift on your face. Etcetera.

That would be so much fun! I vibe with this, DM sometimes with really annoying players that need to be contained. I can imagine a hard fight against the narrarator, just as we are about to win, the narrarator makes the game alt f4 or something. That would make for a very humerous DLC/ sequel. CAN YOU HEAR US ASSYMETRIC!?!