What would you name the magic and melee classes?

[moomal]

I've seen a lot of people say that Jazz agents are the only class that really feel fitting for the setting of the game, whereas Cheese Wizard (a play on Cheez Whiz, which was invented in the 50s) and Pig Skinner (named after the word 'pigskin', a slang term for a football whose usage peaked at about the time the game is set) are less so. So what would you name these classes instead?

I was thinking that the magic class could be something jell-o related because of those absurd vintage savoury jell-o recipes (though these were in the 50s as well.) Perhaps a Jell-Occultist? Finger foods saw a surge of popularity in the prohibition era due to the rise of cocktail parties hosted in homes, so an Hors Diviner would also be appropriate.
An alternative approach would be to lean into the Lovecraftian horror elements instead, and opt for a Calamari Clairvoyant.

The melee class would be the trickiest to name, since they're typically named after animals. Though it's true that 'Pig Skinner' doesn't really scream 'Prohibition', I also can't think of anything that would.
If we again try to lean into the horror elements of the game, we could have a Tentacle Carver, or a Shoggoth Slasher.

EDIT: And here's another thought, what about the secondary skills? Psychogeologist, cryptobotanist, and Insectologist? I didn't have any problem with the themeing of these, but the fact that they all play pretty much identically is quite boring.

[Du-Vu]

Hors Diviner is great. Calamari is an appetizer and it's seafood, so fold that in. That's perfect. But yeah, I'll shoot my shot:

The Cocoa Cultist, master of sweets, channeler of candies and beverages hard, soft, and caramel (and caffeinated). Dark Chocolatier, pink devotee of the phosphate arts, seeker of the secret recipes of the Red and Blue.

Pig Skinner could've worked, honestly. Universities becoming more open to the general public, professional sports becoming increasingly more visible, those both seem pretty timely for the early 20th Century. It just needed to be a bit more connected to the setting -- a few more sports venues, more eldritch pigs to fight. The Porkoth. The Pi-go. The Hogs of Tindalos. The Piglets of Leng. The dreadful hybrid Geep or Shoat. The Swine-Goddess, Miss Yiggy, the Big Sow of the Woods. The Oinker at the Threshold. The Shadow over Boar Tush/Longcochon/the Bay of Pigs. And so on.

[Halfshell]

Messaggio originale di moomal:

I've seen a lot of people say that Jazz agents are the only class that really feel fitting for the setting of the game,

I feel Jazz Agents fit the themes in the game, theres jazz every where. Theres some of the finest stickman groovin' that we've ever seen! The quests particular fit both jazz, and agent. You're a smooth criminal, spy, secret agent, gangster, and the like. What plays on football and food are there really by comparison? Few and far between!

Even fishing fits better with moxie. Even the occult travel. Even the curses. All the systems play together to make being a Jazz Agent the most immersive experience!

[moomal]

Messaggio originale di Halfshell cat:

Messaggio originale di moomal:

I've seen a lot of people say that Jazz agents are the only class that really feel fitting for the setting of the game,

I feel Jazz Agents fit the themes in the game, theres jazz every where. Theres some of the finest stickman groovin' that we've ever seen! The quests particular fit both jazz, and agent. You're a smooth criminal, spy, secret agent, gangster, and the like. What plays on football and food are there really by comparison? Few and far between!

Even fishing fits better with moxie. Even the occult travel. Even the curses. All the systems play together to make being a Jazz Agent the most immersive experience!

Well, yes. That's exactly what i was saying.

[moomal]

Messaggio originale di Du-Vu:

Hors Diviner is great. Calamari is an appetizer and it's seafood, so fold that in. That's perfect. But yeah, I'll shoot my shot:

The Cocoa Cultist, master of sweets, channeler of candies and beverages hard, soft, and caramel (and caffeinated). Dark Chocolatier, pink devotee of the phosphate arts, seeker of the secret recipes of the Red and Blue.

Pig Skinner could've worked, honestly. Universities becoming more open to the general public, professional sports becoming increasingly more visible, those both seem pretty timely for the early 20th Century. It just needed to be a bit more connected to the setting -- a few more sports venues, more eldritch pigs to fight. The Porkoth. The Pi-go. The Hogs of Tindalos. The Piglets of Leng. The dreadful hybrid Geep or Shoat. The Swine-Goddess, Miss Yiggy, the Big Sow of the Woods. The Oinker at the Threshold. The Shadow over Boar Tush/Longcochon/the Bay of Pigs. And so on.

Interesting idea to have a sweet-themed Mysticality class for once, plus having it tie into this new lore about the Cola wars. But did you mean to say Cocoa Cultist or Cola Cultist?
And i love your ideas for potential pig-themed enemies for Pig Skinners to fight- and tying them smoothly into the horror aspect of the game at that. And now that you mention it, there really should have been at least one stadium-like location somewhere in the game. It's such a shame that for a class called Pig Skinners, we didn't have any pig-themed enemies or much sports-related content or the skinning mechanic that was already included in West of Loathing.

[Du-Vu]

Ha, thank you, thank you. And yeah, just one full-on Big Game for the Pig Skinner to really shine in. An arena quest/boss rush type deal.

I was thinking Cocoa Cultist, to kind of double up on puns -- sort of sounds like *Coca* Cola-tist, and Coke Occultist, but also makes it a little broader than just cola as a class, even if that could very definitely have been a personal focus for this character in particular? Something like that. You'd have to hang the lampshade that the coca and cocoa plants are unrelated and not all candy contains cocoa. But you get the spirit, is what I was going for.

[moomal]

Messaggio originale di Du-Vu:

Ha, thank you, thank you. And yeah, just one full-on Big Game for the Pig Skinner to really shine in. An arena quest/boss rush type deal.

I was thinking Cocoa Cultist, to kind of double up on puns -- sort of sounds like *Coca* Cola-tist, and Coke Occultist, but also makes it a little broader than just cola as a class, even if that could very definitely have been a personal focus for this character in particular? Something like that. You'd have to hang the lampshade that the coca and cocoa plants are unrelated and not all candy contains cocoa. But you get the spirit, is what I was going for.

Gosh, i really wish this game had mod support... there's so many good ideas floating around in these forums, and the game has so much potential.
Out of curiosity, would you make any changes to the gameplay of the secondary classes (psychogeologist, cryptobotanist, insectologist)? The themeing is fine by me, but it's a bit dissapointing how little impact your choice actually has on gameplay.

[Halfshell]

Messaggio originale di moomal:

Well, yes. That's exactly what i was saying.

I guess I'm trying to get at theres not much one could name the classes to make them feel more immersive than the Jazz Agent. Without breaking naming convention anyway.

At least to me.. typical ~'30s tropes like butter rich foods and general bland sports aren't really the appeal of the setting. Dapper gentleman and mad scientists are closer.

[Du-Vu]

I kinda get why they didn't put as much effort into a separate crafting track for each class this time around. Given the amount of loot you can find, there's probably a lot that wasn't seen. So a different set of gags for the same materials to craft consumable items you can't necessarily get any other way, that seemed like a step in the right direction.

I think maybe just unique unlockable recipes for each class, based on what your minor was? Not many. Just one or two to set each run apart, even. Maybe a few that aren't class-specific, but you only get one per run. On the one hand it's extra work that many players won't ever see, but on the other hand, so much of these games are exactly that, and it's still less work than in WoL. Not important in and of itself, but seems like the sweet spot between West and this game.

Mad scientist and veteran of the Cola Wars do seem like they could've been good backgrounds for the PC.

[moomal]

Messaggio originale di Du-Vu:

I kinda get why they didn't put as much effort into a separate crafting track for each class this time around. Given the amount of loot you can find, there's probably a lot that wasn't seen. So a different set of gags for the same materials to craft consumable items you can't necessarily get any other way, that seemed like a step in the right direction.

I think maybe just unique unlockable recipes for each class, based on what your minor was? Not many. Just one or two to set each run apart, even. Maybe a few that aren't class-specific, but you only get one per run. On the one hand it's kinda busywork that many players won't ever see, but on the other hand, so much of these games are exactly that, and it's *less* busywork. Not important in and of itself, but seems like the sweet spot between West and this game.

Mad scientist and veteran of the Cola Wars do seem like they could've been good backgrounds for the PC.

mm, good point. I guess a lot of my dissapointment comes from the fact that i didnt really make use of the crafting system all that much to begin with. The food and potions felt almost useless compared to what get just by exploring, so it was really just the combat items.

[moomal]

Messaggio originale di Halfshell cat:

I guess I'm trying to get at theres not much one could name the classes to make them feel more immersive than the Jazz Agent. Without breaking naming convention anyway.

At least to me.. typical ~'30s tropes like butter rich foods and general bland sports aren't really the appeal of the setting. Dapper gentleman and mad scientists are closer.

Ah, i see what you're saying. But i think that the apparent appeal of the classes is not so important in Loathing games. I mean, most people don't think of beans as the main appeal of the Wild West either, but i still had lots of fun as a Beanslinger in West of loathing

[Halfshell]

I think the common consensus is the Mysticality class was the best in WoL. Though in WoL it didn't feel like just a beans class. But like an old goat whos just making it up as they go along. Fitting well with the Mine'splaining, the crazy runes, the occult alchemy, etc. Here though the occult and most of the magic even themes better with Moxie and theres not a whole lot of crazy science, chemistry and baking going on. The other two classes have like two good events/ areas while the Jazz Agent has dozens. It was the same in WoL.

I guess its not just the class name though, but even perk text, class books, the weapons you'll use, and the like that all blend together with the experience. Edit: Such as the Beanslinger's misc skills: Hellbender, Outfoxin', Wary and Bloodbeans fit the game well.

Messaggio originale di Du-Vu:

Mad scientist and veteran of the Cola Wars do seem like they could've been good backgrounds for the PC.

If the Cola Wars had a larger presence in the game yeah I could see something like that working. The Veteran just returning home would have been a strong background, I'm sure theres some animal that would fit an army theme too.

Actually for the Mysticality class something related to spiders and merfolk would have fit with the themes. Idk.. an Egg Beater maybe? Egg Whisker? And then have spells related mostly to egg related hexes and witchery thematically.

[moomal]

Messaggio originale di Halfshell cat:

The other two classes have like two good events/ areas while the Jazz Agent has dozens. It was the same in WoL.

I don't know about that. Cow punchers were completely tied into the story as the whole plot revolved around the Cows Coming Home. The snake oilers were a bit weaker but there's at least one location dedicated to snakes and several random encounters with snakes - plus the inherent fun of employing trickery on your enemies as a Moxie class. Not to mention that each class got a unique location and things to make with beans/cow leather/snake parts.

An egg-themed Magic class is an interesting idea.. an Ovum-magus, perhaps..?

[Halfshell]

Messaggio originale di moomal:

Messaggio originale di Halfshell cat:

The other two classes have like two good events/ areas while the Jazz Agent has dozens. It was the same in WoL.

I don't know about that. Cow punchers were completely tied into the story as the whole plot revolved around the Cows Coming Home. The snake oilers were a bit weaker but there's at least one location dedicated to snakes and several random encounters with snakes -

I meant in this game there aren't alot of areas and events that match for this. I mean there is the entire college area, but its pretty weak overall for a 'football' class. Its not like you can really get the feeling of being a jock, or something like that. Even as an ex-jock-athletic type thats not many events that seemed too great.

The Cheeze Wiz basically just gets the bread magic caster fight - that is pretty great NGL - but what about after that? And again not really a whole lot that specifically plays off of Muscle or Mysticality over Moxie. Even the parts intended for Mysticalility don't fit well.

About WoL was too long ago for me to analyze the specifics. Just looking at the subskills today though, the Beanslinger had a way better naming scheme.

Messaggio originale di moomal:

An egg-themed Magic class is an interesting idea.. an Ovum-magus, perhaps..?

Ovum Magus does indeed sound much better than whatever it was that I said.

[fishinabox]

i just google translated each name:
Cheese Wizard -> Milk Owner
Jazz Agent -> Woman
Pig Skinner -> Pork Leg

[Herr Glaube]

Messaggio originale di Halfshell cat:

Messaggio originale di moomal:

An egg-themed Magic class is an interesting idea.. an Ovum-magus, perhaps..?

Ovum Magus does indeed sound much better than whatever it was that I said.

I'd drop the first M. Ovumagus