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temps Nov 10, 2022 @ 5:02pm
Meaning of a Certain Phillip Graves Cutscene [Campaign Spoilers]
Remember that part in the campaign where Alejandro gets angry with Phillip Graves when Graves says the secret base is his, not Alejandro's... and that Alejandro's men have been detained? And then a shootout begins.

I guess I could see why Alejandro would be upset that his men had been detained by Graves, but why would Graves do it in the first place? What was the point of detaining them and taking the base?
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Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
Khanjima Nov 10, 2022 @ 6:51pm 
Originally posted by temps:
Remember that part in the campaign where Alejandro gets angry with Phillip Graves when Graves says the secret base is his, not Alejandro's... and that Alejandro's men have been detained? And then a shootout begins.

I guess I could see why Alejandro would be upset that his men had been detained by Graves, but why would Graves do it in the first place? What was the point of detaining them and taking the base?

Commandeering the mexican special forces base was all in the means of setting up shop to proceed with the original operation between Shepherd and Graves. Detaining special forces had to of been done to avoid conflict and to avoid Alejandro gathering up everyone and trying to reconquer the place
TopZoz Nov 10, 2022 @ 7:52pm 
Honestly that seemed like the weakest point of the story. Why would Alejandro get so irrationally angry and attack Graves? There's at least some justification for Shepard to have the Vaqueros detained and their base seized after learning that Alejandro has an affiliation with biggest drug lord in the area, but instead of pleading his case with Shepard and Laswell, Alejandro just freaks out and lunges at Graves. It's completely a contrived scenario to push forward the "Mexico good, America bad" plot line. Forced writing is a hallmark of woke propaganda.
ShwoopyPewPew Nov 10, 2022 @ 7:59pm 
Originally posted by TopZoz:
Honestly that seemed like the weakest point of the story. Why would Alejandro get so irrationally angry and attack Graves? There's at least some justification for Shepard to have the Vaqueros detained and their base seized after learning that Alejandro has an affiliation with biggest drug lord in the area, but instead of pleading his case with Shepard and Laswell, Alejandro just freaks out and lunges at Graves. It's completely a contrived scenario to push forward the "Mexico good, America bad" plot line. Forced writing is a hallmark of woke propaganda.

your entire post makes no sense whatsoever. there was 0 "woke propaganda" in this game at all. just because you dont understand something, doesnt mean the big bad liberals are coming to steal your guns and turn your children gay. its amazing you people have any political pull seeing as you guys cant make an informed decision, or put the INCREDIBLY easy pieces together.

what makes your brain think that the leader of a special forces team that just had his entire base stolen from him, and his entire team detained as a bargaining chip from Shepard makes you think "woke propaganda"?????

Are you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ kidding me? Conservatives are so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fragile and weird.
TopZoz Nov 10, 2022 @ 8:11pm 
Originally posted by Yandere Anime Girl:
Originally posted by TopZoz:
Honestly that seemed like the weakest point of the story. Why would Alejandro get so irrationally angry and attack Graves? There's at least some justification for Shepard to have the Vaqueros detained and their base seized after learning that Alejandro has an affiliation with biggest drug lord in the area, but instead of pleading his case with Shepard and Laswell, Alejandro just freaks out and lunges at Graves. It's completely a contrived scenario to push forward the "Mexico good, America bad" plot line. Forced writing is a hallmark of woke propaganda.

your entire post makes no sense whatsoever. there was 0 "woke propaganda" in this game at all. just because you dont understand something, doesnt mean the big bad liberals are coming to steal your guns and turn your children gay. its amazing you people have any political pull seeing as you guys cant make an informed decision, or put the INCREDIBLY easy pieces together.

what makes your brain think that the leader of a special forces team that just had his entire base stolen from him, and his entire team detained as a bargaining chip from Shepard makes you think "woke propaganda"?????

Are you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ kidding me? Conservatives are so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fragile and weird.
Yeah, absolutely no way a game with more flags for genders than countries would hide anti-White dogwhistles in its narrative. No way Alejandro crossing the border and killing an American and getting away with it isn't an anti-White dogwistle. Americans killing people in Mexico for no reason than other for the lulz since they've already captured the cartel leader isn't an anti-White dogwhistle. Graves taunting Rodolfo in broken spanish for no reason other than portray all Americans as petty and racist isn't an anti-White dogwhistle... sure... no way...

There is nothing """""fragile""""" with being able to read between the lines and notice things. You can't gaslight me into submission to your demoralization.

Nice private profile. You will never be a real woman.
Last edited by TopZoz; Nov 10, 2022 @ 8:13pm
Three-ay-em Nov 10, 2022 @ 8:14pm 
the whole dev team is woke
shipdesignerdude Nov 10, 2022 @ 8:40pm 
Originally posted by TopZoz:
Originally posted by Yandere Anime Girl:

your entire post makes no sense whatsoever. there was 0 "woke propaganda" in this game at all. just because you dont understand something, doesnt mean the big bad liberals are coming to steal your guns and turn your children gay. its amazing you people have any political pull seeing as you guys cant make an informed decision, or put the INCREDIBLY easy pieces together.

what makes your brain think that the leader of a special forces team that just had his entire base stolen from him, and his entire team detained as a bargaining chip from Shepard makes you think "woke propaganda"?????

Are you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ kidding me? Conservatives are so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fragile and weird.
Yeah, absolutely no way a game with more flags for genders than countries would hide anti-White dogwhistles in its narrative. No way Alejandro crossing the border and killing an American and getting away with it isn't an anti-White dogwistle. Americans killing people in Mexico for no reason than other for the lulz since they've already captured the cartel leader isn't an anti-White dogwhistle. Graves taunting Rodolfo in broken spanish for no reason other than portray all Americans as petty and racist isn't an anti-White dogwhistle... sure... no way...

There is nothing """""fragile""""" with being able to read between the lines and notice things. You can't gaslight me into submission to your demoralization.

Nice private profile. You will never be a real woman.
You do know that you, a NATO operative, kill hundreds of mexican personel.... you are taking this way out of proportion to push a political narrative. So graves killing civilians is supposed to show how racist he is as a character? He's just killing civilians because he can, not because they are mexican.
TopZoz Nov 10, 2022 @ 8:43pm 
Originally posted by shipdesignerdude:
You do know that you, a NATO operative, kill hundreds of mexican personel.... you are taking this way out of proportion to push a political narrative. So graves killing civilians is supposed to show how racist he is as a character? He's just killing civilians because he can, not because they are mexican.
>defending the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cartel and cartel collaborators
lol. lmao even.
shipdesignerdude Nov 10, 2022 @ 8:46pm 
Originally posted by TopZoz:
Originally posted by shipdesignerdude:
You do know that you, a NATO operative, kill hundreds of mexican personel.... you are taking this way out of proportion to push a political narrative. So graves killing civilians is supposed to show how racist he is as a character? He's just killing civilians because he can, not because they are mexican.
>defending the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cartel and cartel collaborators
lol. lmao even.
If you hate the game, just a find an actually good arguing point other than calling the devs and fanbase woke and racist, I don't even know what you're saying anymore.
TopZoz Nov 10, 2022 @ 8:52pm 
Originally posted by shipdesignerdude:
If you hate the game, just a find an actually good arguing point other than calling the devs and fanbase woke and racist, I don't even know what you're saying anymore.
I literally spelled it out for you in my first post dude. Alejandro has no reason to immediately get irrationally angry at Graves and attack him. Graves has learned that Alejandro has connections to the leader of a drug cartel, so he was ordered by Shepard to seize his base and detain his men, a perfectly rational move. Then later Graves starts massacring everyone in town even though he already has the cartel's leader. He has no reason to do this, but the story has to justify Alejandro's actions post hoc so that 141 and the Vaqueros are the good guys.

The characters' motivations make no sense in the context of the story, they just do what they have to do to force the plot along. It's bad writing.
Last edited by TopZoz; Nov 10, 2022 @ 8:53pm
Bobr Nov 10, 2022 @ 8:54pm 
Want to know the real reason? Bad writing.

Both mw2019 and mw22 are plagued with horrible writing. I shall now rant about it.

I was gonna do a full rant about mw2019, but I genuinely forgot mostly everything since nothing in it was worth remembering. Except that they blamed the Russians for a US war crime, and the game got banned in Russia for it. TBH I don't think the campaign of mw2019 is even required to play mw22 since nothing that happens effects the plot at all. Which just shows how directionless the writers were, and why they needed to copy the original mw trilogy when moving forward.

But one important thing is the lack of edge. They said they were going for a gritty, dark, and realistic tone, but then ignored that and had all the protagonists be good boys who never do anything wrong.

On to mw22. All the characters are just terrible. Lets start with the antagonists, to elaborate on the original post. Graves(and shadow company) is a PMC (private military company), which is already a massive letdown from the original mw2. He doesn't have any real stakes in the story. He's just paid by Shepard to be there. He steals the Mexicans base because he knew they would be against him going around killing civilians.

Shepard is just as bad as a character. His entire motivation is saving himself after he messes up. He has no real presence in the story despite being the reason the story happened. He straight up just leaves and goes missing at the end of the campaign.

For the protagonists, it's not much better. Sure they have some funny dialogue and quips, but they have no actual CHARACTER. Lets compare to the OG trilogy. In mw2019, one of the main themes of the story is "We get dirty, so the world stays clean". Which is a baller line. too bad its completely hollow.

In mw2019, the worst thing you and price directly do is torture a guy and threaten his family, but never actually hurt them. Meanwhile in og mw2, task force 141 tortures a guy and acts like its a normal Tuesday. The action heroes of the og mw trilogy embrace the themes of mw2019, more than the actual protags of mw2019. And that trend is continued into mw22.

The stupidest thing I've ever seen in a video game, was a bunch of British special forces, and a PMC, go and capture a KNOWN TERRORIST, and then LET HIM GO, because they "didn't have enough proof", despite having plenty of proof, and NOT NEEDING IT, since its a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ OFF THE BOOKS CIA MISSION. They BLEW UP and ENTIRE MEXICAN TOWN, for this guy, and let him go.

It completely contradicts the themes of the game. Why didn't they "get dirty so the world stays clean"? Why didn't Graves, the PMC, not bound by normal military rules, kill the guy for them? He's obviously not against killing people for small reasons. It's completely nonsensical.

TLDR: What has 2 legs and bleeds? Half a dog.
temps Nov 10, 2022 @ 9:27pm 
Originally posted by Yandere Anime Girl:
Originally posted by TopZoz:
Honestly that seemed like the weakest point of the story. Why would Alejandro get so irrationally angry and attack Graves? There's at least some justification for Shepard to have the Vaqueros detained and their base seized after learning that Alejandro has an affiliation with biggest drug lord in the area, but instead of pleading his case with Shepard and Laswell, Alejandro just freaks out and lunges at Graves. It's completely a contrived scenario to push forward the "Mexico good, America bad" plot line. Forced writing is a hallmark of woke propaganda.

your entire post makes no sense whatsoever. there was 0 "woke propaganda" in this game at all.

Well Valeria being the drug lord itself was kinda woke, not to mention how she is portrayed as so easily beating up on guys likely much stronger than her. And the whole anti-Russia plot of the game plays into the popular view among the woke these days who are constantly demonizing Russia or accusing people of working with Russia.

Something else that didn't really make sense to me though was that the game seemed to portray Al Qatala (seemingly a reference to the real world Al Qaeda)... as fighting alongside Hassan and the Iranians, doesn't it? That itself doesn't really make any sense at all because Al Qaeda is generally a Sunni group that is or was somewhat friendly with Saudi Arabia (a Sunni nation), while Iran is a Shia nation that is at odds with both Saudi Arabia and Al Qaeda IRL. So the story itself doesn't really seem to make sense in light of actual contemporary middle eastern history, because these Shia and Sunni groups have been fighting each other and in general don't like each other.

Iran being associated with the Russians could make sense however, as this generally matches the real world history of diplomacy in the middle east going on between Russia and Iran.
Last edited by temps; Nov 10, 2022 @ 9:43pm
Originally posted by TopZoz:
Originally posted by shipdesignerdude:
You do know that you, a NATO operative, kill hundreds of mexican personel.... you are taking this way out of proportion to push a political narrative. So graves killing civilians is supposed to show how racist he is as a character? He's just killing civilians because he can, not because they are mexican.
>defending the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cartel and cartel collaborators
lol. lmao even.

Honestly? It was so forced that Graves suddenly just turns on everyone and suddenly everyone ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ protects the Cartel? WTF? Alejandro was about the ONLY one with any loyalists not bound to the damn cartel and their big mouth b****. God I wanted to just shoot her. She is pure evil, even Hassan is less twisted because with that guy you can always blame that American interventions in the ME region made him into what he is but Valeria is just a cartel leader and a greedy person.

Why Graves had to be a baddy was a bit off to me. Rather let the guy survive and make him a "greyzone" that you sometimes have to fight, sometimes have to fight with cause...after all he is a PMC owner. Also much more interesting than some cartel hag or cookie cutter Russian baddies or terrorists.
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Date Posted: Nov 10, 2022 @ 5:02pm
Posts: 12