Is controller just better?

[Hoppled]

I love playing FPS games on mouse and keyboard. The only FPS game I prefer controller in is Halo - because I played H3 back on xbox 360 long ago.

I am enjoying mouse and keyboard with MW2, although, yes I can tell that there are children on the other team who have 0 aim and own me with an SMG no matter what.

What's interesting, is apprently the CDL (Call of Duty League) which is like the pro scene for CoD does not have any mouse and keyboard players, nor allow any to compete because controller is just always better? Not sure if this is true, but I had someone claiming that on reddit.

[identity]

Publicado originalmente por aarddave:

A good m/k player will beat all console players most of the time.

Well that isn't true. It's made even worse by Cronus scripts.
The big things are TTK, who fires first, and how accurate those shots are. M/K will forever have to be 100% on their game, absolutely perfect on all shots to compare to a high skill console player that really only needs to point in your general direction and hold down the trigger. All the heavy lifting is done by aim assist. Add the aforementioned scripts on top of that, and you make aim assist even better (somehow), eliminate recoil, and a bunch of other stuff I probably don't even know about.

https://youtu.be/L9vKwmHz6kc

[aarddave]

Publicado originalmente por id:

Well that isn't true. It's made even worse by Cronus scripts.

When I say 'good' I mean the very top 1% of players which most people who consider themselves to be good won't fall into. For the rest of the players, a controller will make them artificially better. especially a cronus.

[identity]

Publicado originalmente por aarddave:

When I say 'good' I mean the very top 1% of players

Unless you are there yourself, you couldn't possibly know that. Watch the video.

[aarddave]

I've seen the video before and I'm well aware of how strong the aim assist is and yes it needs to be toned down a lot, especially the tracking aspect of it. However, I've also seen videos of Scump destroying lobbies of console players while on m/k which is what I mean. Cheats/cronus aside, aim assist won't make any controller player as good as the likes of Scump. Just because he recognises how overpowered the aim assist is doesn't mean he still can't beat them most of the time.

[identity]

Publicado originalmente por aarddave:

I've seen the video before and I'm well aware of how strong the aim assist is and yes it needs to be toned down a lot, especially the tracking aspect of it. However, I've also seen videos of Scump destroying lobbies of console players while on m/k which is what I mean. Cheats/cronus aside, aim assist won't make any controller player as good as the likes of Scump. Just because he recognises how overpowered the aim assist is doesn't mean he still can't beat them most of the time.

I don't know what this guy has said, how good he is, and frankly I don't really care, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. One player certainly doesn't represent that 1%. He is an outlier, if anything.
We are likely speaking from very similar levels of experience, I'm probably close to you in age, and I was playing competitive Quake in the late 90's and early 2000's, so you don't have to tell me what a good m/k player is capable of, but we're not living in that era, and the playing field has wildly adjusted to favor console players. It's just a simple fact that you cannot maintain the 100% accuracy necessary to compete with very high skill console players that don't have that same handicap.

[identity]

And here's a funny video; this Scump guy using a controller... lol?

https://youtu.be/8eGAvoXICew

[MinTea]

Publicado originalmente por id:

Publicado originalmente por aarddave:

I've seen the video before and I'm well aware of how strong the aim assist is and yes it needs to be toned down a lot, especially the tracking aspect of it. However, I've also seen videos of Scump destroying lobbies of console players while on m/k which is what I mean. Cheats/cronus aside, aim assist won't make any controller player as good as the likes of Scump. Just because he recognises how overpowered the aim assist is doesn't mean he still can't beat them most of the time.

I don't know what this guy has said, how good he is, and frankly I don't really care, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. One player certainly doesn't represent that 1%. He is an outlier, if anything.
We are likely speaking from very similar levels of experience, I'm probably close to you in age, and I was playing competitive Quake in the late 90's and early 2000's, so you don't have to tell me what a good m/k player is capable of, but we're not living in that era, and the playing field has wildly adjusted to favor console players. It's just a simple fact that you cannot maintain the 100% accuracy necessary to compete with very high skill console players that don't have that same handicap.

i would say scump is the top pro player ever. if you don't know him how the hell have you played cod and don't know? im not a fan of pro gaming imho it ruins most fps games but i digress. but even i know who he is lol and im an old middle aged man lol.

players like scump, marksman and handler are just insane cod players and im sure meany others are the same, i know both marksman and scump have said aim assist is broken and im quite sure the devs acknowledged this and was just like mah.

im not a top player, i hold my own im a 1-1.1 kd, i have some very good mathes and some very bad ones depending on how the MM decides to be but tbh ive only had a few times where i could honestly say i lost to a controller player because of AA. however those players could have had Cronus.

[identity]

Publicado originalmente por RagingHamster:

i would say scump is the top pro player ever. if you don't know him how the hell have you played cod and don't know? im not a fan of pro gaming imho it ruins most fps games but i digress. but even i know who he is lol and im an old middle aged man lol.

players like scump, marksman and handler are just insane cod players and im sure meany others are the same, i know both marksman and scump have said aim assist is broken and im quite sure the devs acknowledged this and was just like mah.

im not a top player, i hold my own im a 1-1.1 kd, i have some very good mathes and some very bad ones depending on how the MM decides to be but tbh ive only had a few times where i could honestly say i lost to a controller player because of AA. however those players could have had Cronus.

I haven't followed competitive gaming in years. The only high skill m/k players I know of are irrelevant Quake players that have long retired. Maybe some of them are still around, like Fatality, and I did see some guy named Zero4 in a lobby once, though I doubt that was him. I do know there was a guy named id_ that did some competitive gaming, since I was mistaken for him several times over the years, but he was after my time, too.

[aarddave]

Publicado originalmente por id:

And here's a funny video; this Scump guy using a controller... lol?

https://youtu.be/8eGAvoXICew

Not sure what that video is trying to prove. He usually plays on controller as it's a requirement of the CDL. He has used k/m on some of his twitch streams and still destroys everyone.

Scump has a natural ability that not many people come close to, which is the point I'm trying to make. No amount of in-game aim assist will turn a regular player into a CDL pro. Scump is great regardless of input device.

Aim assist is an major issue at all other levels. It will turn a bad player into an above average player. It will make a controller player appear better than a more skilled k/m player even tho they aren't.

[identity]

Publicado originalmente por aarddave:

Not sure what that video is trying to prove. He usually plays on controller as it's a requirement of the CDL. He has used k/m on some of his twitch streams and still destroys everyone.

Scump has a natural ability that not many people come close to, which is the point I'm trying to make. No amount of in-game aim assist will turn a regular player into a CDL pro. Scump is great regardless of input device.

Aim assist is an major issue at all other levels. It will turn a bad player into an above average player. It will make a controller player appear better than a more skilled k/m player even tho they aren't.

A video titled "My new kill record" while using a controller justifies my position; there is no reason to use m/k because it requires too much effort. He may be a great m/k player, clearly he is if you pay any attention to him at all, but that's not the point; the point is that even good players will sell out for the much easier option, and therein lies the problem with this game.

[identity]

Here's food for thought; would Scump destroy every m/k player he comes across if he's using a controller? Does that mean controller is better than m/k even though a good m/k player can destroy every controller player? Which this Scump guy is? That is the fault with your argument. And what we now know is that Scump uses a controller, clearly by choice since that is not a CDL match (and he competes with a controller, like you just said). Whether he is better with one over the other is irrelevant. What is relevant is that aim assist is too much of an advantage, since Scump has done better than he has ever done previously and made a video about it. Plenty of other "pro" players agree with that assessment. I don't blame them.

[Hoppled]

Publicado originalmente por id:

And here's a funny video; this Scump guy using a controller... lol?

https://youtu.be/8eGAvoXICew

After watching this video I think I'm gonna try and make the switch to controller. Is I have a ps4 and xbox controller, which you think is better? Does the CDL all use playstation controllers? I guess the sticks on ps4 feel better for FPS games while I like xbox for everything else.

I just hope the aim assist is as strong, is Scump playing on PC in that clip or nah?

[Achillezzz]

Publicado originalmente por Hoppled:

I love playing FPS games on mouse and keyboard. The only FPS game I prefer controller in is Halo - because I played H3 back on xbox 360 long ago.

I am enjoying mouse and keyboard with MW2, although, yes I can tell that there are children on the other team who have 0 aim and own me with an SMG no matter what.

What's interesting, is apprently the CDL (Call of Duty League) which is like the pro scene for CoD does not have any mouse and keyboard players, nor allow any to compete because controller is just always better? Not sure if this is true, but I had someone claiming that on reddit.

just played a match - freaking console player locked onto me... didn't matter what I was doing. Console aim assist is an absolute joke and is ruining FPS gaming.

[PNellesen]

Anecdotal, but the VAST majority of streamers who play on PC use controllers, primarily to... take advantage of... the aim assist (see previous posts with links to why). Most of the guys I follow who are dedicated M/KB players have stopped playing CoD (there's a few left though, but they almost NEVER play solo, and most of the guys in their parties are on controllers.)

I'm a M/KB masochist - I have no interest in learning controller, and have decided I either accept playing against them, or quit playing.

[Hoppled]

Publicado originalmente por PNellesen:

Anecdotal, but the VAST majority of streamers who play on PC use controllers, primarily to... take advantage of... the aim assist (see previous posts with links to why). Most of the guys I follow who are dedicated M/KB players have stopped playing CoD (there's a few left though, but they almost NEVER play solo, and most of the guys in their parties are on controllers.)

I'm a M/KB masochist - I have no interest in learning controller, and have decided I either accept playing against them, or quit playing.

I've been trying out controller today and I am still waaaaayyy better on keyboard and mouse, so Idk what to do. I played for a few hours on controller, I eventually started doing okay. Went back to kbm and it felt so much more natural and I ended stomping a FFA match with a 2.50 KD at the end, I was the only keyboard player in there.

This is what's frustrating. In the long run I should just stick with controller I guess. But its just simply not as fun to play on controller. I just know that later on I will start to hate the game because I'll just keep losing to controller players.