Iron as a Very RARE Resource

[Johannes]

I am absolutely ignorant of this time period but from recently reading and listening to videos, there was apparently iron tools and weapons used and the Hittites had this technology but as a secret. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Honestly this opens up new possibilities and this game could've been the next Medieval 2 total war.

Imagine having different ages with Early -> Middle -> Late Bronze Age and the longer you play the game the widespread Iron Technology becomes. With advancing technology and building manufacturing buildings to improve technology and getting to see visually on campaign and battlefield armies slowly incorporating Iron into their weaponry.

Combine this with logistics, building trees, population, plague, ect. The discovery of widespread use of Iron can fluctuate depending how bad the Bronze Age collapse was in your game.

This game had so much potential and hope they can make a sequel in the future with all the game mechanics I have mentioned in previous posts.

[Kendji]

Iron existed, though it was rare and expensive. The only weapons would've probably been seremonial, with Iron items being rare. The Smelting wouldn't been possible for Iron in an typical bronze furnace (if that's the english term).

Only during/after this period in-game did furnaces become better to smelt Iron with the quality of Iron items often being lower than bronze at first. Only after centuries would Iron become cheaper, better and more available than bronze and then displace it. 1205 bc, bronze was very much still the top dog metal.

[Johannes]

Originally posted by Kendji:

Iron existed, though it was rare and expensive. The only weapons would've probably been seremonial, with Iron items being rare. The Smelting wouldn't been possible for Iron in an typical bronze furnace (if that's the english term).

Only during/after this period in-game did furnaces become better to smelt Iron with the quality of Iron items often being lower than bronze at first. Only after centuries would Iron become cheaper, better and more available than bronze and then displace it. 1205 bc, bronze was very much still the top dog metal.

Did the Hittites have iron more widely use for tools and weaponry than other nations and kept it secret

or iron played a limited role like in other nations?

[Defmonkey]

Well yes, meteoric iron being used but the way i understand it, it was very expensive too some say valued more than gold. Though they didnt really use them wholesale until after the events of the game, when they learned how to temper it reliably as iron has many states and requires higher heat.

[Kendji]

Originally posted by Johannes:

Originally posted by Kendji:

Iron existed, though it was rare and expensive. The only weapons would've probably been seremonial, with Iron items being rare. The Smelting wouldn't been possible for Iron in an typical bronze furnace (if that's the english term).

Only during/after this period in-game did furnaces become better to smelt Iron with the quality of Iron items often being lower than bronze at first. Only after centuries would Iron become cheaper, better and more available than bronze and then displace it. 1205 bc, bronze was very much still the top dog metal.

Did the Hittites have iron more widely use for tools and weaponry than other nations and kept it secret

or iron played a limited role like in other nations?

I've only read about rare items made of meteorite ore or in exeptional cases smelting iron from the earth. But that the quality of the Iron would've been low and any higher quality would've been turned into high prestige items like religious objects.

Edit:
One driver for the development of Iron may have been the changes in the trade networks, forcing kingdoms to seek alternatives when tin was lacking.

[Johannes]

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

Well yes, meteoric iron being used but the way i understand it, it was very expensive too some say valued more than gold. Though they didnt really use them wholesale until after the events of the game, when they learned how to temper it reliably as iron has many states and requires higher heat.

Would it be possible to implement a gameplay feature around this idea or is it too insignificant to be worth implementing

(I understand this is the last major update for Total War Pharaoh but I want open discussions so CA Sofia have input for their next game or even revival/sequel to this game with more,better/refined gameplay features.)

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by Johannes:

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

Well yes, meteoric iron being used but the way i understand it, it was very expensive too some say valued more than gold. Though they didnt really use them wholesale until after the events of the game, when they learned how to temper it reliably as iron has many states and requires higher heat.

Would it be possible to implement a gameplay feature around this idea or is it too insignificant to be worth implementing

(I understand this is the last major update for Total War Pharaoh but I want open discussions so CA Sofia have input for their next game or even revival/sequel to this game with more,better/refined gameplay features.)

Well having some rare commodities could also be a good thing, i have bought up amber road and tin road in the past as trade routes. Rare resources could also be a thing as well as developed goods etc. The Hetshetput legacy in game is closest to this... though would of been good to see the trade routes and unique resources back. For goodies and raiding etc.

[Johannes]

Originally posted by Kendji:

Originally posted by Johannes:

Did the Hittites have iron more widely use for tools and weaponry than other nations and kept it secret

or iron played a limited role like in other nations?

I've only read about rare items made of meteorite ore or in exeptional cases smelting iron from the earth. But that the quality of the Iron would've been low and any higher quality would've been turned into high prestige items like religious objects.

Would be cool this could be implemented as ancillary items if it hasn't already.

[Johannes]

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

Originally posted by Johannes:

Would it be possible to implement a gameplay feature around this idea or is it too insignificant to be worth implementing

(I understand this is the last major update for Total War Pharaoh but I want open discussions so CA Sofia have input for their next game or even revival/sequel to this game with more,better/refined gameplay features.)

Well having some rare commodities could also be a good thing, i have bought up amber road and tin road in the past as trade routes. Rare resources could also be a thing as well as developed goods etc. The Hetshetput legacy in game is closest to this... though would of been good to see the trade routes and unique resources back. For goodies and raiding etc.

Having trade routes and unique resources should be standard for Total War.

[Kendji]

Originally posted by Johannes:

Originally posted by Kendji:

I've only read about rare items made of meteorite ore or in exeptional cases smelting iron from the earth. But that the quality of the Iron would've been low and any higher quality would've been turned into high prestige items like religious objects.

Would be cool this could be implemented as ancillary items if it hasn't already.

Indeed if it's only items it could even be moddable. Though I would also split bronze into copper and tin personally as an economic addition.

[Johannes]

Originally posted by Kendji:

Originally posted by Johannes:

Would be cool this could be implemented as ancillary items if it hasn't already.

Indeed if it's only items it could even be moddable. Though I would also split bronze into copper and tin personally as an economic addition.

I agree, it would be cool if there were light Anno gameplay elements in this game given that there are multiple resources to work with.

[Johannes]

From your guys post If implemented Iron should have different values and uses base on quality of its content and or production.

[Iskar]

The crucial point about iron is the technique used to smelt and then work it. Cast iron is very brittle and smithing it requires higher temperatures than for the softer bronze, but it is really the smithing techniques that make iron viable for weapons and tools. A cast iron sword will just break on first contact.

[Hori]

Interestingly in Troy you can collect meteoric iron and use it to boost your units, and in Pharaoh you cannot, even though there is a lot of iron items from Bronze Age Middle East and few from Europe.

[Kendji]

Yeah, I think that can be explained by Troy being Myth first in focus, while twp being History first in focus, even though you can argue both include elements of the other. I'm not against Meteoric Iron myself, though I would in that case include it in the religious field in some way. Maybe you can boost prayers or get ancillaries. Though Historically there is no wide spread military use of it to my knowledge, except for the maybe oddball status sword or such. Atm each great king/pharaoh get unique weapons, I could see the great king being equipped with a super status iron axe for example, with it being reflected for his bodyguard unit.
So 'a lot of iron items' is true when we consider that this is the Bronze age and there should be much iron around, but false when we look at the scale of it's use, there where no mass equipment of armies with Iron yet.

[Iskar]

Originally posted by Kendji:

Yeah, I think that can be explained by Troy being Myth first in focus, while twp being History first in focus, even though you can argue both include elements of the other. I'm not against Meteoric Iron myself, though I would in that case include it in the religious field in some way. Maybe you can boost prayers or get ancillaries. Though Historically there is no wide spread military use of it to my knowledge, except for the maybe oddball status sword or such. Atm each great king/pharaoh get unique weapons, I could see the great king being equipped with a super status iron axe for example, with it being reflected for his bodyguard unit.
So 'a lot of iron items' is true when we consider that this is the Bronze age and there should be much iron around, but false when we look at the scale of it's use, there where no mass equipment of armies with Iron yet.

It is in fact one of the theories being thrown around about the late bronze age collapse, that the emergence of efficient iron metalworking allowed for the comparably easy equipment of peasant armies with nice pointy spears which toppled the existing power structures in many places that relied on only the warrior nobility having access to metal weapons.