Total War: PHARAOH
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Incorrect portrayal of Pharaoh in the trailer
Archaeology proves that the Egyptians (and the Egyptian leaders) were white.

Now you made some fans upset because of revisionism, and also. No one asked for this.
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Сообщения 6175 из 249
Автор сообщения: Sora
Автор сообщения: Mr. Nugget
Was Troy any good?

I got it for free from Epic, but the trailer looked mobile phone quality game.
Never bought it but only ~300-1k players online on a 2 year old game says a lot.
How do you know how many people play this game?
It was on EGS first and was given for free, we simply got no numbers of how many plays it, but i do think its still pretty low.

When more and more storefronts comes up, like EGS, windows store and steam, just checking steamcharts begin to matter less and less since we can never get the full picture of how many people play a game.
Автор сообщения: i-dot
Автор сообщения: Giomanach
if you dont know then just look how an egyptian looks an you have your answer
for me he is not different from Egyptians

so he is not a black nor an asian
how do U call him?
you all ready know if you seen my comments
why not to look at egyptian pictures?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2984206281
the show people of different colors
Автор сообщения: karoten2
Автор сообщения: online gamer
Archaeology proves that the Egyptians (and the Egyptian leaders) were white.

Now you made some fans upset because of revisionism, and also. No one asked for this.

White?

If Archeology or Etymology proves something, it is that ancient Egyptians were not "white people" (Blue Eyes, Blonde or Gingir hair, white skin). "white people" are originaly from north Europe (Germanic peoples, Slavs, Celts, Balts)
You are completely wrong. Genetic samples taken from actual mummies showed that they had blue eyes and red/blond hair.

Also, White people came from Central Asia, not Europe.

Egyptians were not "white" though, they had fair skin and brown skin, similar to Jews, Greeks and some Italians. But they were their own race of people, they did not come from the Central Asian races where Europeans came from.
Отредактировано ᛁᛖᛊᚢᛊ ᚨᚱ ᚷᚢᛞ; 3 июн. 2023 г. в 2:30
Автор сообщения: Victory Forever
Автор сообщения: karoten2

White?

If Archeology or Etymology proves something, it is that ancient Egyptians were not "white people" (Blue Eyes, Blonde or Gingir hair, white skin). "white people" are originaly from north Europe (Germanic peoples, Slavs, Celts, Balts)
You are completely wrong. Genetic samples taken from actual mummies showed that they had blue eyes and red/blond hair.

Also, White people came from Central Asia, not Europe.

Egyptians were not "white" though, they had fair skin and brown skin, similar to Jews, Greeks and some Italians. But they were their own race of people, they did not come from the Central Asian races where Europeans came from.
Yeah, maybe show some actual proof of that study. Only mummy I can think of having red hair in Ramesses II and some of Tut's family had European haplogroups. Ramesses III on the other hand is of an African haplogroup.

Egyptians depicted themselves with brownish skin and black hair.
Отредактировано Sul Haren; 3 июн. 2023 г. в 6:34
Автор сообщения: Sul Haren
Автор сообщения: Victory Forever
You are completely wrong. Genetic samples taken from actual mummies showed that they had blue eyes and red/blond hair.

Also, White people came from Central Asia, not Europe.

Egyptians were not "white" though, they had fair skin and brown skin, similar to Jews, Greeks and some Italians. But they were their own race of people, they did not come from the Central Asian races where Europeans came from.
Yeah, maybe show some actual proof of that study. Only mummy I can think of having red hair in Ramesses II and some of Tut's family had European haplogroups. Ramesses III on the other hand is of an African haplogroup.

Egyptians depicted themselves with brownish skin and black hair.
There are hundreds of figurines, statues, murals and other fantastic archeological finds that prove exactly what I am talking about. Genetic evidence of several mummies from many of the dynasties also support the FACT that they were fair skinned with blue eyes. One can take chemical samples of faded statues as well and determine that blue color was used for the eyes.

Then there is the idea that if a mummy has 5-8% African DNA then "HE'S BLAKK!!!" Absolutely insane demented logic.

If there was anything genuine in you then you would research it yourself. But you don't want to know more, that much is clear. I have no obligation to quote anything to you because what would the point of that be?

You would just reject any factual evidence anyways as most people do. Soon I'll be able to walk around and tell people that the sky is blue and then I'll get someone like you coming up saying "dO yOu hAvE aNy eViDeNcE fOr tHaT??" Instead of just using your eyes and basic logic to receive and accept the evidence at hand.
Автор сообщения: Victory Forever
Автор сообщения: Sul Haren
Yeah, maybe show some actual proof of that study. Only mummy I can think of having red hair in Ramesses II and some of Tut's family had European haplogroups. Ramesses III on the other hand is of an African haplogroup.

Egyptians depicted themselves with brownish skin and black hair.
There are hundreds of figurines, statues, murals and other fantastic archeological finds that prove exactly what I am talking about.
No? You clearly haven't looked at many Egyptian artefacts, because while there few that depict white people, the VAST majority is depicted with brown skin and dark hair.
Автор сообщения: Victory Forever
Genetic evidence of several mummies from many of the dynasties also support the FACT that they were fair skinned with blue eyes.
You're just making stuff up now. There really aren't that many genetic studies, since DNA degrades rapidly and the ones that are there usually come to varying conclusion, however absolutely none to suggest most Egyptians, or even just their rulers, had blue eyes and blond hair.
Автор сообщения: Victory Forever
Then there is the idea that if a mummy has 5-8% African DNA then "HE'S BLAKK!!!" Absolutely insane demented logic.
This is funny, because this is exactly what you have been doing. I have never claimed Egyptians were black. Quite the contrary, I think most looked like modern Middle Easterners.
I have just stated Ramesses III was of an African haplogroup, since you seem so obsessed with DNA studies.
Автор сообщения: Victory Forever
If there was anything genuine in you then you would research it yourself. But you don't want to know more, that much is clear. I have no obligation to quote anything to you because what would the point of that be?
I study in a historical field and Ancient Egypt is pretty much my main interest. I have researched it, hence I know that most studies absolutely did not come to the conclusion you are claiming.
Автор сообщения: Victory Forever
You would just reject any factual evidence anyways as most people do. Soon I'll be able to walk around and tell people that the sky is blue and then I'll get someone like you coming up saying "dO yOu hAvE aNy eViDeNcE fOr tHaT??" Instead of just using your eyes and basic logic to receive and accept the evidence at hand.
Funny thing, because if you used your eyes you would see that the majority of Egyptian self-depictions show them to have brownish skin.
Отредактировано Sul Haren; 3 июн. 2023 г. в 7:59
Firstly, regarding the genetics.

Genetic studies have proven that the people of ancient Egypt were almost entirely of "Near Eastern" origins, and genetically very similar to the neighboring peoples to the northeast. They descended primarily from Neolithic era agriculturalist settlers from the northeast, and had only small levels of sub-saharan type ancestry on average (even as low as 0-1% actual black african), significantly less than the modern Egyptian population. Modern Egyptians have a much larger amount of sub-saharan ancestry than ancient Egyptians for reasons related to medieval and early modern slave trade. Notably, the maternal lineages of modern Egyptians are disproportionately sub-saharan compared to the ancient population.

The y-dna haplogroup branch of the Ramessides is today mostly associated with sub-saharan populations, but it's also closely related to other branches of E1 associated with Arabia, the Mediterranean region, and even Europe. The haplogroup branch probably originated in northeastern Africa about 40 THOUSAND YEARS AGO, and spread more to the south and west than to the north. The branch of the Ramessides actually has two known sub-branches, of which one (E-FT183172) has only been found in Arabia, while its brother branch E-M329 is also clearly Arabian. The specific sub-branch of the Ramessides hasn't been determined as far as I know, and it could be either of the two currently known sub-branches or a separate one. In any case, haplogroups only indicate a SINGLE ANCESTOR, NOT OVERALL ANCESTRY. For example, there are sub-saharan populations that mostly have Eurasian origin R1b lineages due to ancient "back migration" to Africa, but basically no other Eurasian ancestry overall. Even if Ramesses III really did have a sub-saharan ancestor perhaps thousands of years earlier, claiming that the haplogroup means he was "black" as some have done is completely absurd.

To put this simply: the modern human species originated in eastern Africa. Ramesses III had an ancestor who probably lived in eastern Africa about 40 thousand years ago. So did Adolf Hitler. It doesn't mean either of them are black people. It doesn't even mean their ancestors were black people as understood today.


Secondly, regarding the art.

The Egyptians had certain conservative artistic conventions that lasted for millennia, and their art was generally not very realistic in the sense of accurately depicting people's appearance. One artistic convention that was shared with for example the Greeks and partly other Mediterranean cultures was to usually depict men with suntanned "bronzed" skin and women often as untanned or pale. The bronzed skin was also a symbol of masculinity and activity, which is why the neighboring Libyan and Levantine men were pejoratively depicted as "pale" as as sign of "effeminacy" even though they would of course have been heavily suntanned in reality. There are also other examples of symbolic uses of "skin color" in Egyptian art. It's ignorant to claim that the red and brown colors used in Egyptian art are an accurate depiction of the people's natural skin color.

Egyptian art [artincontext.org]

Minoan art [images.fineartamerica.com]

Greek art [images.metmuseum.org]

Etruscan art [classicalwisdom.com]

Roman art [www.renegadetribune.com]

Regarding the historical artistic depictions of Ramesses III, he was in no way depicted as looking like a "black african". Here's my favorite depiction [www.gnosticwarrior.com]

Mummy side [1.bp.blogspot.com]

Mummy front [1.bp.blogspot.com]

Mummy full [i.pinimg.com]
Автор сообщения: Mind5torM
Firstly, regarding the genetics.

Genetic studies have proven that the people of ancient Egypt were almost entirely of "Near Eastern" origins, and genetically very similar to the neighboring peoples to the northeast. They descended primarily from Neolithic era agriculturalist settlers from the northeast, and had only small levels of sub-saharan type ancestry on average (even as low as 0-1% actual black african), significantly less than the modern Egyptian population. Modern Egyptians have a much larger amount of sub-saharan ancestry than ancient Egyptians for reasons related to medieval and early modern slave trade. Notably, the maternal lineages of modern Egyptians are disproportionately sub-saharan compared to the ancient population.
Not sure if you are replying to me since I am not saying Ancient Egyptians were black.
I'm saying they weren't the white, blond, blue eyed people as OP and the person I was replying too are insinuating. Most you say there I fully agree with, maybe apart from if todays Egyptians have a larger amount of sub-saharan ancestry than the ancient ones, since that seems somewhat disputed and there seem to be decent arguments on either side. Besides the point that most DNA is pretty degraded and also practically only from the ruling class.
Автор сообщения: Mind5torM
It's ignorant to claim that the red and brown colors used in Egyptian art are an accurate depiction of the people's natural skin color.
This I have less agreement with. A lot of points you make are true, but we also have to take into account that Egyptians did consistently use different skin colors for different populations and generally stuck with the brownish skin to differentiate themselves from the black Nubians and the more fair skinned Libyans. They clearly did want to depict actual skin colors in much of their art.
Автор сообщения: Mind5torM
Regarding the historical artistic depictions of Ramesses III, he was in no way depicted as looking like a "black african". Here's my favorite depiction
Not a "black African", which I repeat I am not arguing for, but clearly a fairly dark skin, somewhat consistent with the tone they chose for the game.
Отредактировано Sul Haren; 3 июн. 2023 г. в 9:03
kangs and their peanut butter powered pyramids
Автор сообщения: Lotor13
Автор сообщения: cuculus
Archaeology proves that the Egyptians (and the Egyptian leaders) were white.

Now you made some fans upset because of revisionism, and also. No one asked for this.

No, Egyptians were and still are "Middle-Easterners", not blue-eyed blondies ;)
Genetic research as well as archeological and cultural research shows that there were indeed far more blue eyed people in the middle east before the arab conquests. In fact all of the nobility from ancient Sumeria to ancient Egypt had blue eyes as depicted by ancient statuets, figurines, murals, so on so forth.
Автор сообщения: Victory Forever
In fact all of the nobility from ancient Sumeria to ancient Egypt had blue eyes as depicted by ancient statuets, figurines, murals, so on so forth.
"all the nobility of ancient Egypt" including all the nobles from the Nubian Dynasty? lol
Отредактировано i-dot; 10 авг. 2023 г. в 12:44
Автор сообщения: i-dot
Автор сообщения: Victory Forever
In fact all of the nobility from ancient Sumeria to ancient Egypt had blue eyes as depicted by ancient statuets, figurines, murals, so on so forth.
"all the nobility of ancient Egypt" including all the nobles from the Nubian Dynasty? lol
Nubia was a colony, the tribal people there were living in the stone age and served as slaves. Their pathetic attempts at building pyramids can only be matched by how utterly primitive they were.
To the Egyptians they were only ever good as slaves, nothing else. When they took over Egypt in the iron age, Egypt collapsed and suffered brutally until the Assyrians came and finished all of Egypt off once and for all.

I personally love their culture though, the Nubians and the Kushites had a different kind of charm to them, something far more humble and honest about them. Probably connected to the fact that they were the first real Christians in Egypt when Christianity reached the region.
Отредактировано ᛁᛖᛊᚢᛊ ᚨᚱ ᚷᚢᛞ; 10 авг. 2023 г. в 13:00
Автор сообщения: Victory Forever
Nubia was a colony
not a colony just a province sometimes
but in the 25th Dynasty it was a reverse situation: Egypt was a hundred years a province of Nubia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Dynasty_of_Egypt

Автор сообщения: Victory Forever
To the Egyptians they were only ever good as slaves, nothing else.
nubian archers always were highly apreciated in Egypt as mercenarians
even in medeival Egypt liked to hire sudanese (nubian) gunners as mercenarians
Anwar Sadat was a part of this tradition
Отредактировано i-dot; 10 авг. 2023 г. в 13:32
Отредактировано Kriss; 10 авг. 2023 г. в 13:32
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