The game is already full of cheese strats

[ChrisS3097]

The game is already full of cheese strats at all levels like the poseidon centaurs, egyptians etc in my honest opinion cheese has no place in an actual competitive game, it's a big turn off, until they make the game more balanced like AoE 2 I don't think I'll play it anymore tbh

[clstnilo]

I don't mind these "cheese" strats as long there is way to counter....BUT this is not always possible some civs have no way to counter it......and then playing is just rediculus. I can imagine that centaur rush is hard to counter with Norse for example since they don't have a ranged myth...... The "cheese" egyptian strat is impossible to stop for atleans.. To make it worse the civs that can't counter specific strats don't have a "cheese" strat of their own.

[RobAlca]

Originally posted by clstnilo:

I don't mind these "cheese" strats as long there is way to counter....BUT this is not always possible some civs have no way to counter it......and then playing is just rediculus. I can imagine that centaur rush is hard to counter with Norse for example since they don't have a ranged myth...... The "cheese" egyptian strat is impossible to stop for atleans.. To make it worse the civs that can't counter specific strats don't have a "cheese" strat of their own.

bro norse have the easier time against centaurs cuz of godli
atlanteian got good cavarly to destory cavrly archers and siege too

[ChrisS3097]

Originally posted by clstnilo:

I don't mind these "cheese" strats as long there is way to counter....BUT this is not always possible some civs have no way to counter it......and then playing is just rediculus. I can imagine that centaur rush is hard to counter with Norse for example since they don't have a ranged myth...... The "cheese" egyptian strat is impossible to stop for atleans.. To make it worse the civs that can't counter specific strats don't have a "cheese" strat of their own.

There's a reason Gaia and Thor have an abysmal 40-30% winrate depending on the elo, with certain civs especially certain major gods you have no counter play to certain strats which makes it an almost auto-lose even if you play well unless you are much better than the opponent in which case it doesn't really matter what you play

[ChrisS3097]

Originally posted by RobAlca:

Originally posted by clstnilo:

I don't mind these "cheese" strats as long there is way to counter....BUT this is not always possible some civs have no way to counter it......and then playing is just rediculus. I can imagine that centaur rush is hard to counter with Norse for example since they don't have a ranged myth...... The "cheese" egyptian strat is impossible to stop for atleans.. To make it worse the civs that can't counter specific strats don't have a "cheese" strat of their own.

bro norse have the easier time against centaurs cuz of godli
atlanteian got good cavarly to destory cavrly archers and siege too

You need to get to age 3 before you can do that, good luck fighting in age 2 against that unless he just straight up runs his army into yours

[Stavrozium]

Originally posted by ChrisS3097:

There's a reason Gaia and Thor have an abysmal 40-30% winrate

Gaia currently has a winrate of 45.86%.
Thor currently has a winrate of 47.31%.
And the winrates of both of these gods have been steadily rising.
The winrates of all other Norse/Atlantean gods are at 50+%.

https://aomstats.io/

Dont get me wrong,
both Gaia and Thor could still use a small balance buff,
while Poseidon/Centaurs could indeed use a small balance nerf,
and i agree that some major gods struggle more against specific "cheese" strats,
but if you are going to use statistics as an argument, at least use the correct statistics. :P

[ShouteN]

There will be always a meta. No matter how hard devs will try. The worst part - streamers/youtubers promote it and everyone will start using the same 2-3 strats all the time.

I hope in a future AI will be improved so that SP skirmish will be viable option to play.

[RobAlca]

Originally posted by ChrisS3097:

Originally posted by RobAlca:

bro norse have the easier time against centaurs cuz of godli
atlanteian got good cavarly to destory cavrly archers and siege too

You need to get to age 3 before you can do that, good luck fighting in age 2 against that unless he just straight up runs his army into yours

how many centaurs can a dude put on in age 2 without breaking his eco?lets be realistic ull get to age 3 while he got his 3 centaurs u can hold off with heroes easily

[ChrisS3097]

Originally posted by ShouteN:

There will be always a meta. No matter how hard devs will try. The worst part - streamers/youtubers promote it and everyone will start using the same 2-3 strats all the time.

I hope in a future AI will be improved so that SP skirmish will be viable option to play.

You might be right, pretty much all competitive games nowdays get boring and predictable because of this and then you see streamers or youtubers calling it "being smart"

[ChrisS3097]

Originally posted by RobAlca:

Originally posted by ChrisS3097:

You need to get to age 3 before you can do that, good luck fighting in age 2 against that unless he just straight up runs his army into yours

how many centaurs can a dude put on in age 2 without breaking his eco?lets be realistic ull get to age 3 while he got his 3 centaurs u can hold off with heroes easily

If he gets some hippeus + centaurs + upgrade them both, depending on the civ you play he can idle you for a pretty long time, just look at his match-ups if you exclude mirror matches he has at least 54% at the lowest and 60% against certain civs but my biggest issue I guess coming from age of empires 3 is that micro matters quite less since you can't "stagger", for example at some point Poseidon can make his cav and centaurs so fast that most civs or gods would not be able to catch them unless they make a mistake, idk it just feels like a lot of technologies, units or civ designs don't have too much thought behind them and are made mostly with fun in mind not with a competitive environment like age 2 or even age 4, maybe a few years down the line it will get better we'll see

[Angel]

Originally posted by ChrisS3097:

Originally posted by ShouteN:

There will be always a meta. No matter how hard devs will try. The worst part - streamers/youtubers promote it and everyone will start using the same 2-3 strats all the time.

I hope in a future AI will be improved so that SP skirmish will be viable option to play.

You might be right, pretty much all competitive games nowdays get boring and predictable because of this and then you see streamers or youtubers calling it "being smart"

you got something against people posting gameplay to youtube or streaming it?

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by ChrisS3097:

Originally posted by ShouteN:

There will be always a meta. No matter how hard devs will try. The worst part - streamers/youtubers promote it and everyone will start using the same 2-3 strats all the time.

I hope in a future AI will be improved so that SP skirmish will be viable option to play.

You might be right, pretty much all competitive games nowdays get boring and predictable because of this and then you see streamers or youtubers calling it "being smart"

Playing the best strategies is smart for a competitive player. What would you have them do instead to be smarter?

Also idk if you guys have played a game that wasn't streamed... but there's still metas. I played something like 100 games of command and conquer generals zero hour, every USA player went humvees. Its hard to describe the meta of every general (usa's is the simplest because it was actually pretty much just humvees), but lets just say it was very predictable what you'd fight. That game wasn't remotely popular on youtube, I don't think people figured it out from streamers.

Or if you played against a 4 gate in sc2, I'm pretty sure they didn't get the build order from YT, because not a single 4 gater had the build order right. I know, I played against like 100 of them in diamond (and masters+ players didn't 4 gate anymore, including streamers/pros).

[R for Reload]

Centaurs were used the same way in aot and where worse because they would snipe villages and kill them, now they only harass. Egyptians deffs are played in comps, issue is that ra is weak right now and mainly that there late game units are alot easier to counter now with just mass counter-cav due to counter units being stronger then previous games, I don't remember chariot archers being considered cav but that might just be me not looking into things.

[Many-Named]

it's been only 18 days since the game officially came out.

[R for Reload]

Originally posted by Many-Named:

it's been only 18 days since the game officially came out.

guy early access to playing the game is the offical launch.
ITs been out since the start of the premium.

[GarbageCollector]

Can you help me understand why Poseidon's centaurs and "egyptians etc" are cheese strats? What are the rules for valid strats and why are these not included in that group?