Other Gods should all have Unique Units, just like the Greeks

[LORDxLUBU]

Myrmidon/Gastraphetoros/Hetairos
It seems like Greek gods are getting special treatment. Dont you think so?

[Mr.Horakhty]

Not really, this game is asymmetrical. Each civ is completely different by design to make them unique. If we go down that road one can argue that why not all military units are able to build like Norse. Or why not one hero in every civ can't empower like Pharaoh.

Edit: Also they were designed to be semi heroes at first since Greek has limited number of heroes. Those unique units have a tech that allows them to deal bonus against myths.

[Rhalius]

Don't need to, but I do think it would be nice if their heroes at least looked different for each major god.

Like Loki's hersirs could have black beards like him, Thor's hersirs could have a red brown beard and his helmet style, Freyr's Hersirs could have a blonde beard... stuff like that. Just the head could be different.

For the Atlanteans, promoting a unit to a hero could show a different colour. Oranos could keep the white angelic looking armour, Kronos could perhaps give them blackened armour and Gaia could give them armour made of bark.

Just little visual differences like that to give each major god more of an identity.
Could also be neat if they all got different shield designs. Same shape, but getting creative with the skins. Like different patterns or symbols.

Would also help if more upgrades are visual, like the final extra upgrades from the Dwarven forge. I don't think body armour is ever giving a visual change, but the weapons and shields could.

[LORDxLUBU]

Originally posted by Horakhty:

Not really, this game is asymmetrical. Each civ is completely different by design to make them unique. If we go down that road one can argue that why not all military units are able to build like Norse. Or why not one hero in every civ can't empower like Pharaoh.

Edit: Also they were designed to be semi heroes at first since Greek has limited number of heroes. Those unique units have a tech that allows them to deal bonus against myths.

Doesn't matter lmao you dont need army of heroes for Greeks. Greeks heroes are incredibly strong and every greek army has an avenger of heroes in their comp. It would make the game more diverse.

For example, Ra gets speical Medjay hero, Isis gets Elephant Archers, and just give Set mercenary as permanent units. It's not hard. Just copy some A0e2 unit ideas.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by LORDxLUBU:

It seems like Greek gods are getting special treatment. Dont you think so?

No. Having Unique Units is a Greek civ trait, giving other MGs UUs would dimminish the already stunted Greek civ identity. They are already the most basic and AoE1-2 style pantheon, on purpose.
All the pantheons are MUCH more asymmetric.

[Draklora]

Greeks just get everything, tbh other civs just fell like they are unfinished in comparison to options that Greeks get.

[Mr.Horakhty]

Originally posted by LORDxLUBU:

Originally posted by Horakhty:

Not really, this game is asymmetrical. Each civ is completely different by design to make them unique. If we go down that road one can argue that why not all military units are able to build like Norse. Or why not one hero in every civ can't empower like Pharaoh.

Edit: Also they were designed to be semi heroes at first since Greek has limited number of heroes. Those unique units have a tech that allows them to deal bonus against myths.

Doesn't matter lmao you dont need army of heroes for Greeks. Greeks heroes are incredibly strong and every greek army has an avenger of heroes in their comp. It would make the game more diverse.

For example, Ra gets speical Medjay hero, Isis gets Elephant Archers, and just give Set mercenary as permanent units. It's not hard. Just copy some A0e2 unit ideas.

It is not about needing it now, they needed them way back in titans expansion and that's why those units got made, I just gave you the reason they were made in Titans expansion...

The things I said above that line which you choose to ignored are the reason. It is one of the unique things about Greek just like mercenary is unique to Egyptians or Atlanteans can heroize their units. Yes it is easily doable that is not the topic.

[LORDxLUBU]

Originally posted by Draklora:

Greeks just get everything, tbh other civs just fell like they are unfinished in comparison to options that Greeks get.

exactly, they get favor like crazy too even after the nerf

[LORDxLUBU]

Originally posted by Horakhty:

Originally posted by LORDxLUBU:

Doesn't matter lmao you dont need army of heroes for Greeks. Greeks heroes are incredibly strong and every greek army has an avenger of heroes in their comp. It would make the game more diverse.

For example, Ra gets speical Medjay hero, Isis gets Elephant Archers, and just give Set mercenary as permanent units. It's not hard. Just copy some A0e2 unit ideas.

It is not about needing it now, they needed them way back in titans expansion and that's why those units got made, I just gave you the reason they were made in Titans expansion...

The things I said above that line which you choose to ignored are the reason. It is one of the unique things about Greek just like mercenary is unique to Egyptians or Atlanteans can heroize their units. Yes it is easily doable that is not the topic.

Your argument is each gods getting unique units would watered down Greeks? No, it wouldn't dude. I've play plenty of Greek games without having to make their unique units. Greeks doesnt even need Unique units to win. But it's a nice option to have and I want other civs to have that options too.

This is coming from a GREEK MAIN LIKE MYSELF

[Stavrozium]

Do you mean the unique Greek heroes, or do you mean the "special units",
namely Myrmidon/Gastraphetoros/Hetairos for Zeus/Hades/Poseidon? (respectively)

In any case, it doesnt really matter which one you mean. (i assume the latter)
These are both traits that make the Greeks unique, along with f.e. Pegasus;
just like how Egyptians get empowering, and special scouting; (obelisks/lighthouses)
the Norse get military units that can build structures,
and dwarves, and villagers/dwarves that can become berserks;
while Atlanteans get the hero conversion, and their citizens.

There are other traits that distinguish the factions, like f.e. how they gather favor,
but this doesnt really matter either...

Adding a unique trait from the Greeks to all other factions,
would indeed make the Greeks less unique.
The Greeks simply arent getting any "special treatment",
because ALL factions (including Greeks) are getting some form of "special treatment"...
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By the way, some of the other major gods already have "unique units":
Odin has his ravens. Set has his animals. Oranos has Sky Passages.

You could even say that:
Freyr has his special Gullinbursti summon god power, Thor has his special armory,
Loki has his free myth units, (not a unique unit, but rather a STRONG unique ability)
Ra has his special priests that empower, Isis has special monuments,
Kronos has "special" buildings that can teleport, and Gaia has her lush.

In any case, the other major gods dont really need "unique units",
because all of them already have something like that.

And lets also mention the fact, (for the sake of being thorough)
that each minor god also grants access to a "unique" myth unit...
So its not like each major god hasnt got a lot of potential replayability...
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Also, the Greeks get Myrmidon/Gastraphetoros/Hetairos,
while the other factions usually have a bigger unit roster, in general:

The Greeks get 6 units, +1 unique unit, +2 siege, (+ max 4 heroes, and pegasus)
The Norse get 6 units, +2 heroes, +2 siege. (+ dwarves; and military builder units)
The Egyptians get 6 units, +1 hero, +2 siege (+ mercenary/obelisk/lighthouse)
The Atlanteans get 8 units, +1 siege (and essentially 8 hero units!)

IF the devs would be adding new "unique units" to all other major gods,
this means that the Greeks should ALSO get something new;
otherwise the Greeks could become underpowered.
(like f.e. trainable kataskopos/militia/shades,
and/or another new unit that is available to all 3 Greek major gods,
like f.e. a generic hero unit, that is a bit weaker; to keep it balanced.
And/or you could simply make Myrmidon/Gastraphetoros/Hetairos hero units..)

Anyways... Adding more units isnt always a good idea,
especially in an asymmetrically balanced RTS game, like AoM.
All this would accomplish, is making things more complicated, than they need to be.
(it would mean that you would need to memorise 9 extra units.. on top of all the rest)
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Just saying "No, it wouldn't dude",
or saying that *you* hardly use these unique units,
or that you dont need them to win,
arent even proper (counter) arguments...

All you are really saying here, is: "No its not, because i say so";
and the argument that the Greeks dont really "need" them,
could be used as a counter argument against your own position:
namely, if the Greeks dont need them, then why do the other civs need them?
Wouldnt that mean, that the other civs need this even less than the Greeks?..
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Now, dont get me wrong, your proposal could be a cool idea for a mod.

So i am not saying it shouldnt/couldnt be done; all im saying here,
is that your arguments for doing so have been flawed, so far,
while there are some good counter arguments,
which you dismissed, for no good reason at all...

[Mr.Horakhty]

Originally posted by LORDxLUBU:

Originally posted by Horakhty:

It is not about needing it now, they needed them way back in titans expansion and that's why those units got made, I just gave you the reason they were made in Titans expansion...

The things I said above that line which you choose to ignored are the reason. It is one of the unique things about Greek just like mercenary is unique to Egyptians or Atlanteans can heroize their units. Yes it is easily doable that is not the topic.

Your argument is each gods getting unique units would watered down Greeks? No, it wouldn't dude. I've play plenty of Greek games without having to make their unique units. Greeks doesnt even need Unique units to win. But it's a nice option to have and I want other civs to have that options too.

This is coming from a GREEK MAIN LIKE MYSELF

I mean it is a fact that only Greeks have it so it is Greek special feature, isn't that's why you opened this discussion. So I am stating facts rather than argument. They need it or not isn't relevant.

Main discussion we are having is basically: Should some civilization specific features be added to all of them. My fear is by "opening this floodgates" we could (in my opinion) the best part of this game. All civilizations being so different than another.

So could it be done, for sure and yes it would also be fun to play with new units. But I believe it would be "better for the game in the long run" to keep unique things unique instead of generalizing them.

I guess we are just gonna have to agree to disagree on this.

[The Owlogram]

That's not because a civ trait doesn't come into play often that it should be handed away just like that to everyone else. Btw Greek unique units are also used to highlight the archer/infantry/cavalry identity of each Greek god. Gods from other pantheons don't really work like that, so giving them UUs would be shoehorning a design from another civ onto them.

[Stavrozium]

Originally posted by The Owlogram:

That's not because a civ trait doesn't come into play often that it should be handed away just like that to everyone else. Btw Greek unique units are also used to highlight the archer/infantry/cavalry identity of each Greek god. Gods from other pantheons don't really work like that, so giving them UUs would be shoehorning a design from another civ onto them.

Exactly.

[LORDxLUBU]

Originally posted by Horakhty:

Originally posted by LORDxLUBU:

Your argument is each gods getting unique units would watered down Greeks? No, it wouldn't dude. I've play plenty of Greek games without having to make their unique units. Greeks doesnt even need Unique units to win. But it's a nice option to have and I want other civs to have that options too.

This is coming from a GREEK MAIN LIKE MYSELF

I mean it is a fact that only Greeks have it so it is Greek special feature, isn't that's why you opened this discussion. So I am stating facts rather than argument. They need it or not isn't relevant.

Main discussion we are having is basically: Should some civilization specific features be added to all of them. My fear is by "opening this floodgates" we could (in my opinion) the best part of this game. All civilizations being so different than another.

So could it be done, for sure and yes it would also be fun to play with new units. But I believe it would be "better for the game in the long run" to keep unique things unique instead of generalizing them.

I guess we are just gonna have to agree to disagree on this.

Your fear is more unique units for each civs will make them more similar? "All civilizations being so different than another" No dude, you just contradict yourself.

Stop defending Greeks lmao. More unique units will not deter Greeks in any way. Greeks already get named Heroes, that's already make them stand out more than other pantheons. Im not ASKING for NAMED HEROES for each GODs FFS... I'm asking for 1 special unique for each Gods.

More unique units promote even more diversity amongst each pantheons. Why use RA when I can use Isis? Isis is a better Ra at the moment. Maybe if devs gives Ra unique units, it will deviate players for choosing Isis over Ra, etc. A0E2 has unique units and it's the most popular Aoe game ever...Devs have the formula, all they have to do is follow it.

[Mr.Horakhty]

Sure dude.

[LORDxLUBU]

Originally posted by Horakhty:

Sure dude.

Greeks already unique enough, no need to be salty about other pantheons getting unique units.