Greek scouts still cannot be replaced in this version (fixed, i made a mod for it)

[Cryptic]

One thing that I was hoping would change for this version is that the greeks, if they lose their initial scout, they can never get another scout. Sure they can get other units to act as scouts like the pegasus, or other cavalry units, etc, but if you lose that original scout, you lose the auto scout abilities for any land unit as far as I'm aware and you cannot replace him and no other units move reasonably fast to be a dedicated scout unit or have the vision to do so.

What do you guys think about this?

To my knowledge from what I have tested and been playing for 15 hours here, there is no way to get another one

he deserves some love, surely. it feels like a wasted unit

[Gamling]

It is also useful in general to have a scout at the front of your army or a raiding party.

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by William the Marshal:

It is also useful in general to have a scout at the front of your army or a raiding party.

Agreed. A dedicated land scout is very nice to have.

To the people against this:

IDC if the pegasus has better los and can't be targeted in melee. There are multiple reasons to have a land scout and it's weird you can't get him back. Don't deny that.

It would be nice to be able to have a dedicated land scout to be able to accompany armies instead of needing to micromanage a non combat unit in the middle of battle...

And people like me who use easy drag military, you can't select the pegasus with it since it counts as a civil unit so it's more frustrating if you're trying to withdraw from an area, you need to manually click the pegasus which ALL enemies target like a villager.

I'm not even saying scouts need to be upgradable. IDC about that. Just being able to get more would be nice.

It's also not about him being able to fight though that is nice, it's just having a dedicated land scout is very useful and can be part of a larger force

[IEatCats]

Originally posted by Cryptic:

Maybe some people don't want or need the pegasus. It would to be redundant if the base scout was purchase able because he wouldn't cost favor as well.

Its 2 favour and Greek has the easiest favour generation

Originally posted by William the Marshal:

It is also useful in general to have a scout at the front of your army or a raiding party.

No one does this in any RTS, your scout finds the weak points, your army exploits said weak points, your scout avoids fire and goes to find other weak points

Priests, Oracles and no unit in the Norse lineup can do what a Pegasus/Kataskopos does best

[Buntkreuz]

Originally posted by Cryptic:

Originally posted by Senor Cardgage:

The reason Greeks don't have their starting scout be a replaceable unit is because very quickly they gain access to Pegasus, which is better in almost every way as a scout. It would be redundant to let you train both units, especially when the Kataskopos has almost no offensive value (in contrast to Age of Empires's scouting units).

Maybe some people don't want or need the pegasus. It would to be redundant if the base scout was purchase able because he wouldn't cost favor as well.

Maybe some people should go and play AoE2 then.
This is a game with a focus on mythological creatures.
This is not the equivalent of your AoE Scout.
And it couldnt be anyway, because AoM doesnt have universal factions.
The favor cost is redundant too. The Pegasus is dead cheap and superior to a land scout.
You can do anything with it, but better.

In any RTS any air scout is considered a high cost purchase because its considered incredibly strong.
The Greeks Pegasus is actually quite overpowered in terms of intelligence collection.
In a game like Cossacks the Balloon is a late game purchase thats very expensive.
To give one example.

Your problem is a non-problem.

[ПΛПО Dragoon]

Originally posted by Migromul:

Originally posted by ПΛПО Dragoon:

You don't get to say a "nonsense take" when you ignore all the things they said. It's main thing is that it's odd you can't make more, when for all the other factions who do have dedicated scouts you can remake. If you can remake the Pegasus why not be able to remake the default scout? It's an oddity that could be easily fixed without breaking anything buy just making it possible to produce more of them.

No, all other factions, except of the northmen, only have scouts if a temple is built. All starting scouts are dedicated starting scouts, that can't be rebuilt, if you don't have a temple yet. (including oracles and priests, btw.)

That doesn't have any effect on the argument. Like none at all. Needing a structure to reproduce a unit doesn't change the fact that any of them can be remade it would only apply if they couldn't be remade at all.

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by IEatCats:

Originally posted by Cryptic:

Maybe some people don't want or need the pegasus. It would to be redundant if the base scout was purchase able because he wouldn't cost favor as well.

Its 2 favour and Greek has the easiest favour generation

Originally posted by William the Marshal:

It is also useful in general to have a scout at the front of your army or a raiding party.

No one does this in any RTS, your scout finds the weak points, your army exploits said weak points, your scout avoids fire and goes to find other weak points

Priests, Oracles and no unit in the Norse lineup can do what a Pegasus/Kataskopos does best

If no one does this, why did people post it here? Hmm... Also, why do I see people do it in other games? Strange times, yeah?

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by Buntkreuz:

Originally posted by Cryptic:

Maybe some people don't want or need the pegasus. It would to be redundant if the base scout was purchase able because he wouldn't cost favor as well.

Maybe some people should go and play AoE2 then.
This is a game with a focus on mythological creatures.
This is not the equivalent of your AoE Scout.
And it couldnt be anyway, because AoM doesnt have universal factions.
The favor cost is redundant too. The Pegasus is dead cheap and superior to a land scout.
You can do anything with it, but better.

In any RTS any air scout is considered a high cost purchase because its considered incredibly strong.
The Greeks Pegasus is actually quite overpowered in terms of intelligence collection.
In a game like Cossacks the Balloon is a late game purchase thats very expensive.
To give one example.

Your problem is a non-problem.

Why do I have to go play aoe2? I simply posed a question. If you don't like it that's one thing, disagree, but don't get rude and snarky with me and act like the idea is totally alien.

Good God this community is full of gatekeeping elitists.

The wiki page (official) even likens it to the scout in AOE1 and AOE2

It'd be nice to be able to have the unit as an additional option. Stop acting like that's insane when it isnt

Land scout has its benefits whether you want to admit it or not but whatever. You know it as well as I do.

It's odd that a unit so important becomes invalidated so quickly and is literally forgotten about past the first time you have them.

If everything was about "superiority" then the only units that hatter in game are the best of the best and everything else should be removed. That's ridiculous.

I'm not sure why everyone is getting all bent out of shape over the thought of a unit being available more than once LIKE EVERY OTHER UNIT INCLUDING TITANS AND HEROES. Yeah, no kidding that the game is about mythology, no one said otherwise.

Your points don't have anything to do with the argument at hand and are therefore disregarded

"The favor cost is redundant too. The Pegasus is dead cheap and superior to a land scout.
You can do anything with it, but better.

In any RTS any air scout is considered a high cost purchase because its considered incredibly strong." Ah contradictions.

[Cryptic]

I'm modding it into the game right now myself.

The files even have the greek scout listed as costing 75 food lmfao.

probably an oversight

[Darkfireslide]

Originally posted by Cryptic:

Originally posted by Buntkreuz:

Maybe some people should go and play AoE2 then.
This is a game with a focus on mythological creatures.
This is not the equivalent of your AoE Scout.
And it couldnt be anyway, because AoM doesnt have universal factions.
The favor cost is redundant too. The Pegasus is dead cheap and superior to a land scout.
You can do anything with it, but better.

In any RTS any air scout is considered a high cost purchase because its considered incredibly strong.
The Greeks Pegasus is actually quite overpowered in terms of intelligence collection.
In a game like Cossacks the Balloon is a late game purchase thats very expensive.
To give one example.

Your problem is a non-problem.

Why do I have to go play aoe2? I simply posed a question. If you don't like it that's one thing, disagree, but don't get rude and snarky with me and act like the idea is totally alien.

Good God this community is full of gatekeeping elitists.

It'd be nice to be able to have the unit as an additional option. Stop acting like that's insane when it isnt

Land scout has its benefits whether you want to admit it or not but whatever. You know it as well as I do.

It's odd that a unit so important becomes invalidated so quickly and is literally forgotten about past the first time you have them.

If everything was about "superiority" then the only units that hatter in game are the best of the best and everything else should be removed. That's ridiculous.

I'm not sure why everyone is getting all bent out of shape over the thought of a unit being available more than once LIKE EVERY OTHER UNIT INCLUDING TITANS AND HEROES. Yeah, no kidding that the game is about mythology, no one said otherwise.

Your points don't have anything to do with the argument at hand and are therefore disregarded

"The favor cost is redundant too. The Pegasus is dead cheap and superior to a land scout.
You can do anything with it, but better.

In any RTS any air scout is considered a high cost purchase because its considered incredibly strong." Ah contradictions.

First, an air scout and land scout both die to archers—there aren't high speed flying interceptors like in something like Supreme Commander to worry about. Being an air unit is just an inherent advantage in this game, which is why there are so few of them. What is your rationale for suggesting in this game why a land-based scout is better than a ground-based one?

As I wrote previously, the kataskopos is a stopgap so that you don't start with a pegasus scout, which is a better overall unit because it can't be targeted by melee and has better LoS as well.

Titans couldn't be reproduced previously, and neither could the Son of Osiris or Nidhogg. Tbh, I'm not sure making them appear more than once was a good idea, but it is what it is. As I also said though, the Prodromos unit is not only faster than the Kataskopos, but has better LoS as well, so it is a superior unit as a scout compared to the Kataskopos in every conceivable metric. I will also state that scouting is something a unit *does* in this game, not something it *is*, as there are no inherent advantages to scouts other than occasionally having better LoS, which as we see in the Kataskopos isn't always the case. There is no stealth to be detected, and there are fast units available to every faction for getting information. Things like Set's and Loki's first god powers also allow for early scouting, as does Oranos's innate ability to keep LoS on enemy units that have been damaged. For this purpose, the Turma unit is a better scout with its 5 speed and 12 range attack than the Oracle unit. As you can see, a dedicated scout unit is not always a good thing when there aren't units really designed for the role. The Kataskopos isn't really a unit you'd want to reproduce even if you could, as its role is obviated entirely by the Pegasus and the Prodomos, or even the Hippeus in the Classical Age.

Like, is it bad design that you can't make additional Kataskopos? I've never seen this issue raised ever in the lifetime of this game in forums or discourse. I'm just trying to understand why you so fervently believe that this unit *needs* to be changed to be reproduced. The developers for the original game didn't think so, as according to the Kataskopos wiki page, originally there was going to be a scout cavalry unit trained at the town center for all 3 factions, including Egyptians and Norse, but this idea was scrapped.

I just don't think it's a big issue at all. I'd much rather the devs focus their efforts on things like adjusting Nemean Lions to be more balanced. Make a mod or get someone to make a mod for the game this way if you're this passionate about it honestly

[Buntkreuz]

Originally posted by Cryptic:

Originally posted by Buntkreuz:

Maybe some people should go and play AoE2 then.
This is a game with a focus on mythological creatures.
This is not the equivalent of your AoE Scout.
And it couldnt be anyway, because AoM doesnt have universal factions.
The favor cost is redundant too. The Pegasus is dead cheap and superior to a land scout.
You can do anything with it, but better.

In any RTS any air scout is considered a high cost purchase because its considered incredibly strong.
The Greeks Pegasus is actually quite overpowered in terms of intelligence collection.
In a game like Cossacks the Balloon is a late game purchase thats very expensive.
To give one example.

Your problem is a non-problem.

Why do I have to go play aoe2? I simply posed a question. If you don't like it that's one thing, disagree, but don't get rude and snarky with me and act like the idea is totally alien.

Good God this community is full of gatekeeping elitists.

The wiki page (official) even likens it to the scout in AOE1 and AOE2

It'd be nice to be able to have the unit as an additional option. Stop acting like that's insane when it isnt

Land scout has its benefits whether you want to admit it or not but whatever. You know it as well as I do.

It's odd that a unit so important becomes invalidated so quickly and is literally forgotten about past the first time you have them.

If everything was about "superiority" then the only units that hatter in game are the best of the best and everything else should be removed. That's ridiculous.

I'm not sure why everyone is getting all bent out of shape over the thought of a unit being available more than once LIKE EVERY OTHER UNIT INCLUDING TITANS AND HEROES. Yeah, no kidding that the game is about mythology, no one said otherwise.

Your points don't have anything to do with the argument at hand and are therefore disregarded

"The favor cost is redundant too. The Pegasus is dead cheap and superior to a land scout.
You can do anything with it, but better.

In any RTS any air scout is considered a high cost purchase because its considered incredibly strong." Ah contradictions.

Dont get defensive dude.
This isnt AoE where land scouts are key and have several factions that revolve around their usage with upgrades.
In this game you have unique factions and this one has flying scouts.
Thats it.

[Cryptic]

got it. uploading it for others to enjoy as well. thanks everyone!

[Monokuma]

Originally posted by Cryptic:

The files even have the greek scout listed as costing 75 food lmfao.

probably an oversight

Might be used for score calculation purposes.

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by Monokuma:

Originally posted by Cryptic:

The files even have the greek scout listed as costing 75 food lmfao.

probably an oversight

Might be used for score calculation purposes.

there are a lot of stats with each unit including pop, stats for armor and damage, cost, los, etc. idk how the scoring works. there's a file for that but idc tbh

[ПΛПО Dragoon]

Originally posted by Monokuma:

Originally posted by Cryptic:

The files even have the greek scout listed as costing 75 food lmfao.

probably an oversight

Might be used for score calculation purposes.

Id put my money on they were originally going to be able to be made, but got scrapped later on.

[jonoliveira12]

Greeks have Pegasus, literally the best Scout unit, then there is the Prodromos, which completely overshadows the Kataskopos at both speed and line of sight.

There is no point in allowing you to make more Kataskopoi.