How to heal units?

[Lotor13]

Only Egyptians have "classic" Age of Empires priests, who can heal units + Pharaoh

How about other nations?

[Ry]

Originally posted by Darkus:

Originally posted by Lotor13:

I also noticed, that I can not repair ships with a vilagers ,

Ships are units simelar to your standard infantry, so anything that can heal your normal units can heal ships.

In OG and EE version you could heal ships with both priests and villagers. There's no reason to remove it from the game. The more I learn about what was changed, the more I feel like this is a downgraded shiny version of what was once a great game series.

[Ry]

Originally posted by Rhalius:

Greeks have other advantages though like the plentyvault which gives a good amount of resources. And now you can cast it more than once too.
Granted, enemies can capture it but you can capture a healing spring from a Norse player too.

The Norse also have Valkyries which heal.

Greeks and Atlanteans have the least amount of room for healing - oh wait the Atlanteans also have Gaia who can heal.

Leaving Greece with only one path for healing as long as you choose Apollo as a Minor God to worship when advancing to the next age.

[Lotor13]

Originally posted by Bad Luck Tig:

Originally posted by Thats How We do action in Uganda:

You have to read all mythical unit description and God upgrades, there is one for Greek which make temple heal units around, there is mythical unit for Norse "valkyrie" and i guess others have something too.

Okay.

But the Greeks used to have Hippocrates who could heal units.

There's no reason to take Hippocrates away from the Greeks when it was very much needed for balancing reason in the first place.

This is the point,

I opened this thread, because I played Greeks in campaign and skirmish and I discovered, that I do not have option to heal units - if I do not choose specific minor god (Athena) I needed (wanted) to heal heroes..

Egyptians have "classic" Age of Empires priests, but the Greeks, if You do not choose Appolo or Athena, You can not heal Your heroes, and it is better to let them die and train them again

[Ry]

Originally posted by Lotor13:

Originally posted by Bad Luck Tig:

Okay.

But the Greeks used to have Hippocrates who could heal units.

There's no reason to take Hippocrates away from the Greeks when it was very much needed for balancing reason in the first place.

This is the point,

I opened this thread, because I played Greeks in campaign and skirmish and I discovered, that I do not have option to heal units - if I do not choose specific minor god (Athena) I needed (wanted) to heal heroes..

Egyptians have "classic" Age of Empires priests, but the Greeks, if You do not choose Appolo or Athena, You can not heal Your heroes, and it is better to let them die and train them again

Specifically if you are Hades which takes advantage of the Greek's lack of healing by giving you a small chance of your human units to return as the mythical shade unit.

Every other civ has multiple avenues of healing

Norse - Valks + God Power

Egyptians - Priests and Pharaohs

Atlanteans - Dryad Tree + That Flying Myth Unit + Gaia's Lush Ability.

Greeks - Only Temples if you chose Apollo (It's Apollo who lets you research the temple healing ability..

But judging by that logic, why allow everyone else to heal when they have just as many cheap and expensive units as the Greeks and deny the Greeks?

Egypt has a minor god that allows you to research a tech to give you some of your resources back when your units die.

[Entropy Judge]

Originally posted by Bad Luck Tig:

Every other civ has multiple avenues of healing

Norse - Valks + God Power

Of course, those two are at the same tier, so you can't exactly get both of them at the same time. Whereas Zeus and Hades can each get both Athena (Restoration God Power) and Apollo (Healing Temple). Poseidon can't get either of those two, but he does get regenerating Cavalry (from a tech?), and he and Zeus can both get cavalry that heal from attacking (via Dionysus).

No, it's not the same. But like ... if it were, what would be the point of playing the different gods? Just flavor? Different abilities, strengths, and weaknesses is the point. Pretty sure you could go "Why does X civ not get what everyone else has more easily?" for every civ, probably multiple times. It's just different.

[Lapetirubern]

I can think of one very good reason why the Greeks don't have as easy accessible a source of healing as everyone else.

Hydras. It's too easy for those to snowball if they can be healed, and they're by design a high risk high reward unit. The reward is that at 5 heads they have one of the highest damage outputs in the game even though they're only a Heroic Age unit. The risk is that it's very hard to get them there while still having HP to work with.

[Many-Named]

Originally posted by Central:

gaia's lush also heals units, although it is very slow

Only in battle, it's pretty fast outside of combat for a constant effect. Anyway factions are balanced around different features of which healing is but one among many. If you don't have healing, chances are you have some other form of advantage the healing nations do not have.

Also Egyptians are supposed to be a ''religious'' faction, with their priests making up for their lack for scouting (except maybe Set with his starting baboon) and an army that is quickly outclassed unless you switch to Midgol.

[Rws vi Britannia]

Originally posted by Bad Luck Tig:

Originally posted by Thats How We do action in Uganda:

You have to read all mythical unit description and God upgrades, there is one for Greek which make temple heal units around, there is mythical unit for Norse "valkyrie" and i guess others have something too.

Okay.

But the Greeks used to have Hippocrates who could heal units.

There's no reason to take Hippocrates away from the Greeks when it was very much needed for balancing reason in the first place.

Those were added during the crap chinese expansion, alongside other needless units for other civs in an attempt to "balance things out"

If you played EE before the chinese expansion, or the OG game, then you wouldn't have Hippocrates. Retold simply undid the extremely stupid design decision made in EE.

[Many-Named]

Originally posted by Bad Luck Tig:

Originally posted by Thats How We do action in Uganda:

You have to read all mythical unit description and God upgrades, there is one for Greek which make temple heal units around, there is mythical unit for Norse "valkyrie" and i guess others have something too.

There's no reason to take Hippocrates away from the Greeks when it was very much needed for balancing reason in the first place.

No idea, it's too early to tell if Hippocrates was really that important in the 1st place in the Greek plan. If you like having healing Gaia has access to THREE sources of healing and that's not counting Hesperides Tree twice as it comes in 2 and each can heal and produce pop free MU's.

[Ry]

Originally posted by Lapetirubern:

I can think of one very good reason why the Greeks don't have as easy accessible a source of healing as everyone else.

Hydras. It's too easy for those to snowball if they can be healed, and they're by design a high risk high reward unit. The reward is that at 5 heads they have one of the highest damage outputs in the game even though they're only a Heroic Age unit. The risk is that it's very hard to get them there while still having HP to work with.

Then nerf the Hydra

[Uugly]

Egypt is the only one with dedicate healer and you can increase their healing further with the right god. Other 3 struggle if you don't pick the right god.

The healing spring is far too slow at healing.

[Many-Named]

I cannot believe gave you negative awards when this is such a helpful post. I can only assume whoever did it is either a teen or has the brain of one. There is no need to be like this really.

Anyway the Khopesh's purpose was to give an early raid units to the Egyptians plus a form of cavalry because they were so fast but they were considered a trash unit and no used them except maybe for scouting so there is that.

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by Colil:

losing your troops is really not that important in AoM. at least compared to some of the other RTS games

Um no? It is always important and more cost effective to heal what you have instead of paying for more

[Ry]

Originally posted by Many-Named:

I cannot believe gave you negative awards when this is such a helpful post. I can only assume whoever did it is either a teen or has the brain of one. There is no need to be like this really.

Anyway the Khopesh's purpose was to give an early raid units to the Egyptians plus a form of cavalry because they were so fast but they were considered a trash unit and no used them except maybe for scouting so there is that.

"Trash unit" = Spam Cannon Fodder/Harassment unit.

You spam them to be cannon fodder while you build up your main mode of counter attacking.

You also use them to harass and annoy your enemy economic units.

You also use them as a quick spam summon to rush with the main intent of just causing chaos or to slow down.

Just because you didn't find a use for a "Trash unit" doesn't mean it cannot be useful.

Originally posted by Uugly:

Egypt is the only one with dedicate healer and you can increase their healing further with the right god. Other 3 struggle if you don't pick the right god.

The healing spring is far too slow at healing.

If by "dedicated healer" you mean the priest that is available for every major god? Yes.

However as I kept pointing out Atlanteans and the Norse also have their own dedicated healers. Valkyries and Caladria. The Caladria is also kinda cheaty because it's a flying myth unit that needs ranged units to deal with. (Which the Norse lacked before the introduction of the Bolsgiveir who was turned into the Godi. All the Norse had was Throwing Axe Men and Ballistas.)

Greeks heroes don't mess with the villager production, but those are the same Heroes who go down very quickly that requires resources to spend.

Speaking of spending resources, the amount of favor alone needed to keep casting Restoration eats away at your ability to abuse the Greek's advantage (especially Zeus) when it comes to Myth units. That's why I don't harp too much on the Norse and their lack of healing if you worship Forseti and get the Healing Springs, because if you worship Freyja instead, you get access to Valkyries who fight and heal much like the Priests from Egypt. Forseti like Athena both offer healing god powers, one being permanent, the other being temporary while both costing more and more favor each time to cast which is why Forseti is superior to Athena and gives the Norse a slight advantage over the Greeks. Greeks can heal using Temples if Apollo is worshiped, but that requires bringing your army back to your bases or outposts to heal up at temples rather than being healed right after battle or during battle. And which the new mechanic of putting your healers on Auto Healing, you can pull them back, line them up with the ranged units, and just have your healers heal during combat.

If you're worried about the Hydra's ability to Regen thanks to a godpower upgrade, why not make it so the Hydra alone cannot be healed by someone like Hippocrates, which means priests, Caladrias, and Valkyries can't heal the Hydra either if you're playing team matches and your ally sends some healers over to you to heal up your units. Hydras already get healed by priests, caladrias, and Valkyries. They already get healed by temples if you research that upgrade. They're also really really expensive to train. Pop and Resource wise.

The more we examine this situation, it appears that removing Hippocrates DOES hurt the Greeks. Giving them a MOBILE HEALER like every other Civ has (Priests, Valkyries, Caladrias) only makes sense mechanically for the Greeks.

---------------------------------------------------

This is for everyone else.

If you have any other concerns or whatever, instead of pulling out the "Can't", "It sucks" or any other brain dead stupid emotionally charged response that 4Chan Chuds engage in, WHY NOT ASK "How can we MAKE it work?"

Enough with the weird ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ roadblocks.

Greece needs a healing unit.

It will BE the only Civ that has no healing units.

We all ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ know that the Monks will be added back to the Chinese Civ with the ability to heal, they're just gonna be re-skinned Priests.

If we get the Aztecs, we're also gonna have a dedicated healing unit for them as their main way of gaining favor from the Gods would be to capture enemy units and use them for sacrifice (meaning you would need a unit to convert and heal) as that is how Aztecs historically believed they gain favor from the gods unlike the Greeks who pray at Temples. The Aztecs believed killing you opponent was a waste and a mistake, thus prioritizing capturing over murking.


So again


I ASK YOU


Instead of saying "No, it can't be done. Cringe. Bad. You don't know what you're talking about, I do." ask "Okay, how do we make it work?" and go from there

[Rws vi Britannia]

Why do the greek need a healing unit, in your opinion? Are their human units too squishy when compared to the other civs? Are their myth units not buff enough? Could we adjust something else to make up for the lack of healing units?

Personally, I'd rather have an army of minotaurs with a one time heal than an army of trolls with a healing fountain. And I'd rather have an army of cyclops with no heal than an army of trolls or valkyries.

Greek is not underpowered in my opinion, or at least not because of a lack of a special healer unit. It's all a question of playing to the civ's strengths.

The egyptians are the only ones with easy, unconditional access to healers. The other civs need to pick the right god if they want to prioritize healing over other benefits. Playing to a civ's strengths is important. Choosing the right playstyle for the civ is important.

If you really want to implement physicians again, then you'd need to rebalance things, which is not an easy task. Would you make myth units unable to be healed? Or give them a bit less health? Or do you think the greek will be perfectly balanced with the other civs if you gave them a healer unit? Would it not make greeks too powerful? How would you balance it out? What buffs would you give other civs to make up for the addition of a new greek healer?

And then there's the simple solution: You can always make a mod, adding a healer for the greeks, and play with that.