Are Valkyrie and Centuars considered cavalry?

[Green Raven]

What about Minotuars? Are they infantry?

[Maraxus]

I've been wondering the same. What about the Norse infantry heroes, are they considered infantry(for the purpose of whether anti infantry units having bonus dmg vs them)?

[Stavrozium]

I took a look at the game files.

All myth units only get the myth unit tag,
(afaik, i didnt check all of them)
so only heroes should get bonus damage vs myth units.

While f.e. valkyries do get the "mythunitcavalry" tag,
this does not count for the bonus damage of f.e. hoplites.
(for bonus damage of hoplites it has to the "abstractcavalry" tag)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Norse Hersirs count as infantry, and Godi counts as archers,
so they can be countered via bonus damage.

Atlantean Heroes retain their unit class tags when turned into heroes,
so all their heroes can still be countered via bonus damage.

Greek heroes only count as heroes, so no bonus damage.

Priests also count as healer and scout units, (on top of hero tag)
but i dont think they can be countered via bonus damage.
(afaik no unit has bonus damage vs these unit types)

[Maraxus]

Thank you for taking the time to check that out. So myth units are a monolithic unit type for the purpose of receiving bonus damage(the myth type). And heroes are like their regular unit type for that purpose(but deal bonus dmg vs myth units).

[Stavrozium]

Originally posted by Maraxus:

Thank you for taking the time to check that out. So myth units are a monolithic unit type for the purpose of receiving bonus damage(the myth type). And heroes are like their regular unit type for that purpose(but deal bonus dmg vs myth units).

No problem ;)

and yup, only greek/egyptian heroes do not have additional unit types,
but all norse/atlantean heroes do have additional unit types, and receive bonus damage.

AoM has multiple "rock/paper/scissors" systems:
heroes => myth units => human units (=> heroes)
cavalry => archers => infantry (=> cavalry; there are exceptions here)
siege => structures

[LORDxLUBU]

lol all the noobs thinks Valk and Cent are horsies units so I must make spearmen

[Maraxus]

For real didn't expect such a detailed answer.

It's an interesting addition to the aoe system. I feel it's like a system within a greater system, sort of recursive like(with some exceptions indeed).

I made a graph. 😂 https://i.imgur.com/6W1FG9q.png

Great design!

[soldier6661111]

Originally posted by LORDxLUBU:

lol all the noobs thinks Valk and Cent are horsies units so I must make spearmen

What a great contribution.

Nice stuff Stavrozium

[Stavrozium]

Originally posted by Maraxus:

For real didn't expect such a detailed answer.

It's an interesting addition to the aoe system. I feel it's like a system within a greater system, sort of recursive like(with some exceptions indeed).

I made a graph. 😂 https://i.imgur.com/6W1FG9q.png

Great design!

Nice graph :)

Keep in mind that "Cavalry => Archers => Infantry" does not always apply,
as there are many "special" counter units in AoM.
It is still a general guideline, but there are many exceptions.

For example, Slingers and Turma are "anti archer archers",
while Turma also counts as both cavalry and archer, for bonus damage.
The greeks have 2 cav units, (not counting poseidon's special cav)
one has bonus vs archers, the other bonus vs cavalry,
so both these units deal bonus damage vs turmas.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then you also need to keep armor values in mind.
There is hack, pierce and crush armor.
Hack damage is usually melee, pierce is arrows, crush is siege.
(there is also divine damage, this is new, i suspect that it ignores armor)

A good example for this is Norse Huskarls, an infantry unit.
They have bonus damage vs archers, and also have high pierce armor.
So while archers do bonus damage against them, the high armor negates it.

Another good example is the Norse Throwing Axeman.
They count as both archers and infantry, and deal bonus damage vs infantry.
Their attack also counts as hack damage, so they are a good counter vs huskarls,
even though huskarls also do bonus damage vs them,
because their hack damage ignores the Huskarl's high pierce armor.

In short: for all human units,
you should learn what they counter, and what they are countered by.
Some minor god upgrades also add bonus damage to certain units.
So check out the techtree, and unit descriptions.
At least for myth units (and structures) it is a lot simpler.. ;)

[Maraxus]

I see, yeah that's why I put spears rather than infantry in there. It does get more complicated there with the armor types, units having different armor types values and special units hmmm... there is a lot to consider. :D

Hmm now that I think about it, it should make for unique games... and with 2 new factions coming.. this is gonna get crazy lol. I always liked sc for their asymmetric factions but this might... take the cake.

[Maraxus]

Oh btw why do ranged units have (80%) next to their ranged damage... does that mean they do 80% of the value(before the target's reduction is calculated)? >.>

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3326918145

[Monokuma]

Originally posted by Maraxus:

Oh btw why do ranged units have (80%) next to their ranged damage... does that mean they do 80% of the value(before the target's reduction is calculated)? >.>

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3326918145

It's likely their base accuracy rating

[Maraxus]

Oh that makes sense, thanks. 😂

[Stavrozium]

Originally posted by Monokuma:

Originally posted by Maraxus:

Oh btw why do ranged units have (80%) next to their ranged damage... does that mean they do 80% of the value(before the target's reduction is calculated)? >.>

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3326918145

It's likely their base accuracy rating

Yes this is probably their base accuracy.
I dont see this in the proto file,
so its probably in another file somewhere..

With the ballisitics upgrade in the armory,
the accuracy should become 99%,
for all types of ranged attacks except land siege, like catapults.
(it applies to archers, heroes, ships, structures and myth units)
So id say that getting this upgrade is crucial.

[Maraxus]

Cool stuff, loving learning this game lol.

[Migromul]

all non-mythical soldiers are considered infantry afaik. But infantry has at least three additional tiypes: ranged (weak against cavalery) Spear (strong agains cavalery) and normal melee (even against other infantry.) There are also special infantry- and cavalery types, which are only strong against special units. (and ranged horse, for example, for the altaneans, which is only strong against other ranged infantry. or a siege-unit-type only usefula gainst infantry of all kind, as long as in stays at range.)

all hero-units are good against mythical, regardless of type. But I don't realy know, if greek heroes aren't considered other infantry as well. (e. g. having still bonus damage against some normal units, depending of type. For example, thare is Ajax, a spear/shield-wielder. I still think he gets some bonus damage against cavalery. And oddyseus is an archer.) They're NOT weak agisnt the counter-type-unit, if normal, however.

I can also imagine, that walkyries and centaurs are considered cavalery, so they get even more damage against spear-wielding atlantean heroes, for example. (or ajax) But they won't receive much bonus-damage against normal spears. Minotaurs, however, are monsters. Like other mythical monsters on two legs. Be it cyclopes, androids, golems, colossuses or whatever else. I don't believe they're mauch different in comparison to those.)

I say this all from a logical point of few. I didn't check any files.