Gaia looks like crap

[Kai]

Change. And who is that green merman thing? thats crap too.

This is supposed to have art direction from real classical depictions, not comicbooks.

[Dead]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Tjhe Titans as nature monster gods was a Disney Hercules movie thing, that stuck around, but is not at all accurate of how Titans were always presented as.

Okay and thats fine Disney shows werent ment to be historically accurate neither is AoM,

here are some other depictions of Gaia:

https://media.mythopedia.com/6Eix4cMd42VQZsRIXriHiP/31dc9faf2474021893c4a2b09c53dd1d/gaia-greek-titan-anselm-feuerbach-1875.jpg?w=640&q=50&fit=crop&ar=3:2&crop=faces,entropy&auto=compress,format

https://www.theoi.com/image/T1.7BGaia.jpg

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/gaziantep-turkey-january-ancient-zeugma-mosaics-museum-city-founded-bc-seleucus-nicator-general-alexander-178732565.jpg

tell me which is the historically accurate one? Sure they have similarities but its not the same depiction, it changed depending on the artist and art form

[Dead]

Like the other dude said im also not saying that this depiction is good, but saying its because of her not being hot enough or historically accurate is weird since thats not what the game is about

[Armilus]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by TheDeadUser:

Elves in particular have been apart of Germanic folklore and mythology for who knows how long, The norse also had their fair share of "elf" depictions called "álfar" and most of "fantasy" races are rooted in mythology. But thats besides the point. Point me to a historical accurate the "original" Gaia depiction that was present during the period of belief in the Greek pantheon. And ill show you 3 different versions of her during the same period. the main point here is AoM was never about historical accuracy if it was Zeus would be depicted MUCH worse than he was. In the game he was depicted as this benevolent god while in the Mythos... oooh boy was he not

Elves in germanic folklore are balls of light and darkness. The Tolkien Elves, which is what everyone uses for Fantasy, are much more based on the Fey Courts of Celtic mythology, than Germanic or Norse Elves.

Gaia Statue:
https://library.acropolis.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Cybele_Getty_Villa_57.AA_.19-e1469428752361.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Fregio_della_gigantomachia_02.JPG/440px-Fregio_della_gigantomachia_02.JPG

https://www.maicar.com/GML/000Images/gim/gaia8838detail.jpg

Seen you say the elves as balls of light thing before. You also said that dwarves were maggots as well.
I didn't know what that was about. Looking it up, it said that dwarves were made from the maggots that devoured Ymirs corpse. Plants were made from Ymirs hair, dirt from Ymirs flesh, mountains from Ymirs bones, the sky from Ymirs skull, the ocean from Ymirs blood, etc.
Also, humans were carved from trees.
So, saying dwarves are maggots, while accurate, is the same as saying that norse humans should be made out of wood. The Norse creation myth also states that Giants are the descendants of Ymirs feet.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Armilus:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Elves in germanic folklore are balls of light and darkness. The Tolkien Elves, which is what everyone uses for Fantasy, are much more based on the Fey Courts of Celtic mythology, than Germanic or Norse Elves.

Gaia Statue:
https://library.acropolis.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Cybele_Getty_Villa_57.AA_.19-e1469428752361.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Fregio_della_gigantomachia_02.JPG/440px-Fregio_della_gigantomachia_02.JPG

https://www.maicar.com/GML/000Images/gim/gaia8838detail.jpg

Seen you say the elves as balls of light thing before. You also said that dwarves were maggots as well.
I didn't know what that was about. Looking it up, it said that dwarves were made from the maggots that devoured Ymirs corpse. Plants were made from Ymirs hair, dirt from Ymirs flesh, mountains from Ymirs bones, the sky from Ymirs skull, the ocean from Ymirs blood, etc.
Also, humans were carved from trees.
So, saying dwarves are maggots, while accurate, is the same as saying that norse humans should be made out of wood. The Norse creation myth also states that Giants are the descendants of Ymirs feet.

In many actual Norse myths, teh Dwarves are maggots, not like Tolkien Dwarves, which again are based on Celtic Fey.

The way we see Elves and Dwarves is very much through a Tolkien lens, not at all like old mythology, where they were DECIDEDLY non-human.

Tolkien took the Germanic names, but gave them to Celtic fairy creatures, many of which were a lot more like humans with exagerated physical features, like we now see Elves and Dwarves.

[Buntkreuz]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Warcraft is a FANTASY setting, not mythology, it does not carry cultural and religious icons.

You are both arguing in very bad faith, which completely detonates your point, not that you ever had any, which is why you resort to these tactics.

Theres several mythologies using dwarves, elves and other creatures you might see in games like Warcraft (or movies or whatever else).
Blizzard didnt invent Orcs, Dwarves, Trolls or anything like that. Neither did Tolkien.
So much to "detonating" a point here.
Its all mythological creatures and entities. None of them are real, all of them are fairytales, so their depitction varies and depends on an artist creating them.

How you imagine a dragon might differ drastically from my image of a dragon.
Does a Dragon or Wyrm or Wyvern now have 2 Legs? 6? 4? None?
How many wings do they have? Do they even need Wings?
Scales or Furry?

We could go on.
Your depitcion of Gaia is just different to the artist in the dev team, as it is possibly different to mine or any of the quadrillion pictures from different people on the internet.

So its naturally that some people dislike the style. But thats TASTE, not FACT.
Thats the point.

If the criticism is "The leafy gaia looks like Groot and thus dumb", fair enough.
But for gods sake dont say "Gaia doesnt look historically accurate" as if the game showed historical events.
You could say "i prefer the classical depiction where they all are drawn like human beings" and i would say "fair enough".

The Dev wanted to go specificall non-human and "fantastic". You can dislike that but its as legitimate as any other style.

[Armilus]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Armilus:

Seen you say the elves as balls of light thing before. You also said that dwarves were maggots as well.
I didn't know what that was about. Looking it up, it said that dwarves were made from the maggots that devoured Ymirs corpse. Plants were made from Ymirs hair, dirt from Ymirs flesh, mountains from Ymirs bones, the sky from Ymirs skull, the ocean from Ymirs blood, etc.
Also, humans were carved from trees.
So, saying dwarves are maggots, while accurate, is the same as saying that norse humans should be made out of wood. The Norse creation myth also states that Giants are the descendants of Ymirs feet.

In many actual Norse myths, teh Dwarves are maggots, not like Tolkien Dwarves, which again are based on Celtic Fey.

The way we see Elves and Dwarves is very much through a Tolkien lens, not at all like old mythology, where they were DECIDEDLY non-human.

Tolkien took the Germanic names, but gave them to Celtic fairy creatures, many of which were a lot more like humans with exagerated physical features, like we now see Elves and Dwarves.

I'm not denying that. But was there ever a real description on how dwarves look like in norse mythology? Being made from maggots and looking like maggots are two different things. In Norse mythology, the first two humans were carved from as ash tree and an elm tree. That doesn't make humans look like Groot either.
If there are actual descriptions depictions to how dwarves look like, different from humans, then alright. Then I'd actually like to see them depicted like that, at least occasionally.

Dwarves were said to be greath smiths, forging several weapons for the Gods, including Odins spear. Wouldn't they need hands and tools to do that?

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Buntkreuz:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Warcraft is a FANTASY setting, not mythology, it does not carry cultural and religious icons.

You are both arguing in very bad faith, which completely detonates your point, not that you ever had any, which is why you resort to these tactics.

Theres several mythologies using dwarves, elves and other creatures you might see in games like Warcraft (or movies or whatever else).
Blizzard didnt invent Orcs, Dwarves, Trolls or anything like that. Neither did Tolkien.
So much to "detonating" a point here.
Its all mythological creatures and entities. None of them are real, all of them are fairytales, so their depitction varies and depends on an artist creating them.

How you imagine a dragon might differ drastically from my image of a dragon.
Does a Dragon or Wyrm or Wyvern now have 2 Legs? 6? 4? None?
How many wings do they have? Do they even need Wings?
Scales or Furry?

We could go on.
Your depitcion of Gaia is just different to the artist in the dev team, as it is possibly different to mine or any of the quadrillion pictures from different people on the internet.

So its naturally that some people dislike the style. But thats TASTE, not FACT.
Thats the point.

No, you are mixing fantasy with mythology. Mythological creatures, deities and items are different from their fantasy depictions which only lift their name and a few concepts.

For a piece of media that wants to depict MYTHOLOGY, not fantasy, it pays to be accurate to original depictions.

The devs actuially did this in many points, such as Ptah being green skinned now (like his statues were) and Leto being a blonde (which is also mythologically accurate).

This makes it weird why they defaced Gaia, when her original portrayal was quite good, and keep Kronos a monster creature.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Armilus:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

In many actual Norse myths, teh Dwarves are maggots, not like Tolkien Dwarves, which again are based on Celtic Fey.

The way we see Elves and Dwarves is very much through a Tolkien lens, not at all like old mythology, where they were DECIDEDLY non-human.

Tolkien took the Germanic names, but gave them to Celtic fairy creatures, many of which were a lot more like humans with exagerated physical features, like we now see Elves and Dwarves.

I'm not denying that. But was there ever a real description on how dwarves look like in norse mythology? Being made from maggots and looking like maggots are two different things. In Norse mythology, the first two humans were carved from as ash tree and an elm tree. That doesn't make humans look like Groot either.
If there are actual descriptions depictions to how dwarves look like, different from humans, then alright. Then I'd actually like to see them depicted like that, at least occasionally.

Dwarves were said to be greath smiths, forging several weapons for the Gods, including Odins spear. Wouldn't they need hands and tools to do that?

A maggot dwaf's hand needn't be like a human's.

[Armilus]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Armilus:

I'm not denying that. But was there ever a real description on how dwarves look like in norse mythology? Being made from maggots and looking like maggots are two different things. In Norse mythology, the first two humans were carved from as ash tree and an elm tree. That doesn't make humans look like Groot either.
If there are actual descriptions depictions to how dwarves look like, different from humans, then alright. Then I'd actually like to see them depicted like that, at least occasionally.

Dwarves were said to be greath smiths, forging several weapons for the Gods, including Odins spear. Wouldn't they need hands and tools to do that?

A maggot dwaf's hand needn't be like a human's.

You're right about that, but the question remains.
Genuinely curious, btw. Not trying to prove a point.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Armilus:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

A maggot dwaf's hand needn't be like a human's.

You're right about that, but the question remains.

Why would't the god hire extremely skilled maggot men, to make their weapons? You want the tools they make, not them.

[Buntkreuz]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Buntkreuz:

Theres several mythologies using dwarves, elves and other creatures you might see in games like Warcraft (or movies or whatever else).
Blizzard didnt invent Orcs, Dwarves, Trolls or anything like that. Neither did Tolkien.
So much to "detonating" a point here.
Its all mythological creatures and entities. None of them are real, all of them are fairytales, so their depitction varies and depends on an artist creating them.

How you imagine a dragon might differ drastically from my image of a dragon.
Does a Dragon or Wyrm or Wyvern now have 2 Legs? 6? 4? None?
How many wings do they have? Do they even need Wings?
Scales or Furry?

We could go on.
Your depitcion of Gaia is just different to the artist in the dev team, as it is possibly different to mine or any of the quadrillion pictures from different people on the internet.

So its naturally that some people dislike the style. But thats TASTE, not FACT.
Thats the point.

No, you are mixing fantasy with mythology. Mythological creatures, deities and items are different from their fantasy depictions which only lift their name and a few concepts.

For a piece of media that wants to depict MYTHOLOGY, not fantasy, it pays to be accurate to original depictions.

The devs actuially did this in may point, such a Ptah being green skinned now (like his statues were) and Leto being a blonde (which is also mythologically accurate).

This makes it weird why they defaced Gaia, when her original portrayal was quite good, and keep Kronos a monster creature.

Im not mixing up anything.
They are all just fantasy creatures people made up.
The pictures you know are typically created from people in europe in an age that has no connection to the origins.
Like this classical one.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_(Mythologie)#/media/Datei:Gaia_(Kylix_detail).jpg
Its from 1886.

Their depictions, the tales, their abilities and so on ever vary depending on the people acting as sources over several thousnands of years.

Factually you dont have much information about anything because there arent many sources about the Greek history left over besides the tales of Homer.
Which is why a ton of the tales are considered myths and not historical fact (Troy or the Trojan Horse and so on). Theres too few independent sources and the sources are highly exaggerating.

I know you love the pop cultural depictions, but they arent historically accurate.
If at all you could say you want the depiction to be oriented on a certain artist.

Should i tell you something?
If you want it historically accurate then Gaia is black or has black hair.
Because greeks created only black/"white" paintings on their pottery.
Most depictions of greek mythology are from european artists (italy, spain, germany) around 1500.
Thats possibly what you know and consider "historically accurate".


So lets refrain from historical accuracy for a completely fictional game using solely fantasy creatures.
It lets people look a bit dumb.

[Armilus]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Armilus:

You're right about that, but the question remains.

Why would't the god hire extremely skilled maggot men, to make their weapons? You want the tools they make, not them.

Absolutely correct. But are there actual descriptions or depictions of dwarves by the norse? If there are none (I don't know of any, maybe you do, and then I'd like to know) then their humanoid appearence used in many fantasy properties, even if Celtic in origin, is a valid interpretation.
Them coming from maggots doesn't mean they have to look like maggots any more than humans look like trees. Gods have been depicted to look very human like, and the idea of gods creating creatures in their image isn't unique to just one religion or the other.

[Buntkreuz]

Originally posted by TheDeadUser:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Tjhe Titans as nature monster gods was a Disney Hercules movie thing, that stuck around, but is not at all accurate of how Titans were always presented as.

Okay and thats fine Disney shows werent ment to be historically accurate neither is AoM,

here are some other depictions of Gaia:

https://media.mythopedia.com/6Eix4cMd42VQZsRIXriHiP/31dc9faf2474021893c4a2b09c53dd1d/gaia-greek-titan-anselm-feuerbach-1875.jpg?w=640&q=50&fit=crop&ar=3:2&crop=faces,entropy&auto=compress,format

https://www.theoi.com/image/T1.7BGaia.jpg

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/gaziantep-turkey-january-ancient-zeugma-mosaics-museum-city-founded-bc-seleucus-nicator-general-alexander-178732565.jpg

tell me which is the historically accurate one? Sure they have similarities but its not the same depiction, it changed depending on the artist and art form

Btw the first one isnt Gaia, thats Kybele, a roman godlike entity.
The second depicts Zeus and only partially has Gaia shown.
The first one is from about 60 A.D., so not very old and from an italian artist.
The second one is from a german artist and also not very old considered the age of the greek myth.
That means, its different people who followed the description of "mother of earth" and then went with that and their imagination.
Could also have ended up looking like a tree and you would call it historically accurate.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Armilus:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Why would't the god hire extremely skilled maggot men, to make their weapons? You want the tools they make, not them.

Absolutely correct. But are there actual descriptions or depictions of dwarves by the norse? If there are none (I don't know of any, maybe you do, and then I'd like to know) then their humanoid appearence used in many fantasy properties, even if Celtic in origin, is a valid interpretation.
Them coming from maggots doesn't mean they have to look like maggots any more than humans look like trees. Gods have been depicted to look very human like, and the idea of gods creating creatures in their image isn't unique to just one religion or the other.

Andvari, from the Volsunga Saga, is a maggot that transforms into a pike (fish), Otr, Fafnir (which becomes a dragon)...

[Armilus]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Armilus:

Absolutely correct. But are there actual descriptions or depictions of dwarves by the norse? If there are none (I don't know of any, maybe you do, and then I'd like to know) then their humanoid appearence used in many fantasy properties, even if Celtic in origin, is a valid interpretation.
Them coming from maggots doesn't mean they have to look like maggots any more than humans look like trees. Gods have been depicted to look very human like, and the idea of gods creating creatures in their image isn't unique to just one religion or the other.

Andvari, from the Volsunga Saga, is a maggot that transforms into a pike (fish), Otr, Fafnir (which becomes a dragon)...

Thank you. Now I have something to look up and read about.
You mentioned shapeshifting, which also implies they could basically look whatever. But while I don't know what Fafnir was described to look like, before he became a dragon, I do think the dragon form was part of a curse. So I'm not going to assume shapeshifting in a sense of changing into different forms at will.