God powers on cooldown

[Narcissistic Cannibal]

"The god power change is both great for esports and for watching the game," said Yuen, because you know that—like a key cooldown in a MOBA match—that lightning bolt or meteor is coming back around soon. "That anticipation makes it much more fun to watch," he said.

Here comes the corporate moba/esports circlejerk again. Apparently, the devs didn't study the downfall of DoW3 close enough.

I have always liked how Atlanteans got 2-4 charges of less impactful god powers and wanted to see it applied to the base game nations. But the Mythic Age powers are meant to be like that: single-use tide-turning events. Meteor shower on cooldown is a complete brain rot.

[Keïnos]

It was not possible to the base game but it could be possible in the remaster to adapt the divine powers to have more utilisations based on their power. Having two restorations with Athena, Three spies with Loki, two citadels with Sekhmet.

[ethorin101]

If Meteor Shower has a fifteen minute cooldown, are you actually seeing it more than once per game?

[Keïnos]

I don't know. Sure, fifteen minutes is an eternity in a RTS, especially on multi, but that would unbalance the game. If Meteors have cooldowns, that would mean other last powers would have too, like call of Ragnarok with players stocking low cost villagers to gain huge armies of heroes every fifteen minutes. Same with Son of Osiris with players cumulating many sons of osiris to attack.

[Central]

i really wonder what they will give the atlanteans to replace their unique ability now that everyone can just cast godpowers on a cooldown.
it will also make isis her ability to protect her lands with monuments a whole lot stronger.

[Narcissistic Cannibal]

Originally posted by ethorin101:

If Meteor Shower has a fifteen minute cooldown, are you actually seeing it more than once per game?

That makes the addition of cooldowns even more absurd.

[Reilath]

I think they will limit certain powers in certain ways,for example Son of Osiris will go on cooldown but you will only be able to use it again if the first Son of Osiris dies.
Same with Call of Ragnarok, they will probably limit it to 20 or so villagers or something like that. But this is only my opinion, we will have to wait for the full release to actually see what'll happen. Ok another idea came to me, they could also add a certain price in resources or favor to reuse powers to make it even more balanced, like an offering.

[Keïnos]

Originally posted by Central:

i really wonder what they will give the atlanteans to replace their unique ability now that everyone can just cast godpowers on a cooldown.
it will also make isis her ability to protect her lands with monuments a whole lot stronger.

I always thought it was dumb as an unique ability. Having the possibility to use some gods power many times is quite unfair. You have only one use of restoration with Athena but three vortexes with Helios, meaning you can heal one time your army but invade three time other players bases behind their lines, wich is something you can only do once with Apollo's power.

[ethorin101]

Originally posted by Keïnos:

I don't know. Sure, fifteen minutes is an eternity in a RTS, especially on multi, but that would unbalance the game. If Meteors have cooldowns, that would mean other last powers would have too, like call of Ragnarok with players stocking low cost villagers to gain huge armies of heroes every fifteen minutes. Same with Son of Osiris with players cumulating many sons of osiris to attack.

I mean, they are also changing other stuff... so... would it really?

And again, you are assuming the SoO stays alive for fifteen minutes... But Bolt works on SoO... so that's a bit of an assumption.

And like, sure, you can stock up a ton of villies to turn into Rag Heroes but uhhh... if the first Rag didn't finish the game do you really have the time for that? You've got to rebuild your eco from scratch the first time, is fifteen minutes really enough for you to recover well enough? And of course, that assumes the same cooldown for each power by age and that, I dunno, that seems pretty unlikely to me.

Like, you know what God Power I think might actually be broken? Thor's Dwarven Mine. Like, even if it's just "I can use this in Archaic to super charge Dwarf Production and then also drop one in Mythic to delay when I need Ox Caravans" that might actually swing games in a way I really don't think more EQ's could.

Like, will multiple god power uses swing games? Sure. Multiple Shifting Sands or Underworld Passages is terrifying in concept. How about multiple Plague of Serpents? Tornado or Eearthquake or Lightning Storm or even Vaults of Plenty is like... the least scary part of this whole thing to me. The scariest is stuff like multiple Great Hunts meaning Odin has literally thousands more hunt/herd than anyone else, or multiple Dwarven Mines meaning gold starving Thor just flatly doesn't happen, infinite Gaia Forests meaning Gaia actually never runs out of wood no matter how long the game warping the water meta into early rushes and endless Gaia wars, between Rain and Eclipse how often do Ra's opponents actually get to do things with God Powers?

The Mythic powers are barely a blip compared to the weirdness enabled by lots of lower level God Powers.

Actually, here's a funny question, how often does Zeus lose a fight between Bolt for high prio targets, Restoration and Bronze Skin?

Does Poseidon ever have to let anyone do damage? What happens when six Hermes players cooperate to force an infinite Ceasefire?

But also like, all of these things are blatantly obvious and I have no doubt that each has been addressed by FE, well, ok, that, or we all go play the new PVE gamemode forever because cooldown godpowers actually does kill MP.

Then again, Workshop exists so maybe it just turns into tournies played on an agreed upon balance mod handled by people NOT giving out infinite godpowers.

Who knows?

You know what I know? Balancing infinite Rag is hilariously easy, it does it all on it's own. Balancing infinite Bolt isn't terribly hard, it's single target, the importance of any individual target should always be decreasing. Balancing infinite wood is much much much harder.

[Keïnos]

Originally posted by Reilath:

I think they will limit certain powers in certain ways,for example Son of Osiris will go on cooldown but you will only be able to use it again if the first Son of Osiris dies.
Same with Call of Ragnarok, they will probably limit it to 20 or so villagers or something like that. But this is only my opinion, we will have to wait for the full release to actually see what'll happen. Ok another idea came to me, they could also add a certain price in resources or favor to reuse powers to make it even more balanced, like an offering.

Please no. For the last god power, one use is really good. No need to cooldown. Two or three uses for the three others can be good (like two citadels, two undead invoking, three restoration and three spies for Loki, but don't touch the last, it would be a mess to constantly have Ragnarok heroes spawning with meteors, tornados and seisms rampaging bases regularly. God powers are something to use wisely at the right moment, especially the last one. Having them cooldown would kill that strategy part of the game.

[Keïnos]

Originally posted by ethorin101:

Originally posted by Keïnos:

I don't know. Sure, fifteen minutes is an eternity in a RTS, especially on multi, but that would unbalance the game. If Meteors have cooldowns, that would mean other last powers would have too, like call of Ragnarok with players stocking low cost villagers to gain huge armies of heroes every fifteen minutes. Same with Son of Osiris with players cumulating many sons of osiris to attack.

I mean, they are also changing other stuff... so... would it really?

And again, you are assuming the SoO stays alive for fifteen minutes... But Bolt works on SoO... so that's a bit of an assumption.

And like, sure, you can stock up a ton of villies to turn into Rag Heroes but uhhh... if the first Rag didn't finish the game do you really have the time for that? You've got to rebuild your eco from scratch the first time, is fifteen minutes really enough for you to recover well enough? And of course, that assumes the same cooldown for each power by age and that, I dunno, that seems pretty unlikely to me.

Like, you know what God Power I think might actually be broken? Thor's Dwarven Mine. Like, even if it's just "I can use this in Archaic to super charge Dwarf Production and then also drop one in Mythic to delay when I need Ox Caravans" that might actually swing games in a way I really don't think more EQ's could.

Like, will multiple god power uses swing games? Sure. Multiple Shifting Sands or Underworld Passages is terrifying in concept. How about multiple Plague of Serpents? Tornado or Eearthquake or Lightning Storm or even Vaults of Plenty is like... the least scary part of this whole thing to me. The scariest is stuff like multiple Great Hunts meaning Odin has literally thousands more hunt/herd than anyone else, or multiple Dwarven Mines meaning gold starving Thor just flatly doesn't happen, infinite Gaia Forests meaning Gaia actually never runs out of wood no matter how long the game warping the water meta into early rushes and endless Gaia wars, between Rain and Eclipse how often do Ra's opponents actually get to do things with God Powers?

The Mythic powers are barely a blip compared to the weirdness enabled by lots of lower level God Powers.

Actually, here's a funny question, how often does Zeus lose a fight between Bolt for high prio targets, Restoration and Bronze Skin?

Does Poseidon ever have to let anyone do damage? What happens when six Hermes players cooperate to force an infinite Ceasefire?

But also like, all of these things are blatantly obvious and I have no doubt that each has been addressed by FE, well, ok, that, or we all go play the new PVE gamemode forever because cooldown godpowers actually does kill MP.

Then again, Workshop exists so maybe it just turns into tournies played on an agreed upon balance mod handled by people NOT giving out infinite godpowers.

Who knows?

You know what I know? Balancing infinite Rag is hilariously easy, it does it all on it's own. Balancing infinite Bolt isn't terribly hard, it's single target, the importance of any individual target should always be decreasing. Balancing infinite wood is much much much harder.

I agree. Two or three maximum uses for first gods power is clearly enough. And for balanced infinite Ragnarok, I never tried to use it twice, so I don't know if that's possible or not to rebuild an economy. I guess using market and food only gatherer to stock other gatherer wouldn't be that hard for experienced players but then again, I only guess.

[Reilath]

So i guess the best thing for them to do is to rework some of the useless powers, add cooldowns and leave the last ones (ultimates if you will) to still be one use only without cooldown.

[ethorin101]

Originally posted by Keïnos:

Originally posted by ethorin101:

I mean, they are also changing other stuff... so... would it really?

And again, you are assuming the SoO stays alive for fifteen minutes... But Bolt works on SoO... so that's a bit of an assumption....

I agree. Two or three maximum uses for first gods power is clearly enough. And for balanced infinite Ragnarok, I never tried to use it twice, so I don't know if that's possible or not to rebuild an economy. I guess using market and food only gatherer to stock other gatherer wouldn't be that hard for experienced players but then again, I only guess.

There are actually currently fairly high level MP games on Youtube, generally speaking, in those games, Ragnarok either wins the game or the Rag player flat loses in the next ten minutes because they don't have anything like the eco to keep up with their opponent.(it's pretty rare for a Rag to even out the gamestate instead of being a knockout one way or the other)

But again, we don't have enough information to actually figure anything out about what cooldown based god powers will do. So either we think FE is at least vaguely competent at balance and CD based God Powers are probably not the end of the world, or we assume they are balancing entirely around rule of cool Co-Op play with 0 regard for anything else.

But either way, it's an assumption, we don't know enough yet to say for sure how any of this is going to work right now.

[jonoliveira12]

God Powers having cooldowns is awsome.
One and done is terrible design, since after teh GPs were spent, most gameplay was masses of cheap Human Units, even Myth Units rarely got made for the late game.

I hope tehy seriously buff Myth Units, or reduce their costs, so we see them more. And it is nice that we will get to use GPs more often, so it looks like the gods are actively participating on the battle, rather than glancing once at it, and going away.

[Princess Nicol]

Originally posted by snehurec:

Spot on. It is obvious they are trying to resurrect a dead franchise only to cash more money on esport. Instead of making a new unique game we get a reskin of 20 year old game with talks of its esport future. Where are new campaigns? Where are innovative mechanics? Locked behind DLCs? The lack of innovation and their unwillingness to move the franchise forward just puts me off. I do not need to buy the same game I used to played years ago with updated graphics.

Exactly this! I am so disappointed! I want something new, new mechanics, new civs, new things to discover.

But it will be a copy paste :/

[Gandalf]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

God Powers having cooldowns is awsome.
One and done is terrible design, since after teh GPs were spent, most gameplay was masses of cheap Human Units, even Myth Units rarely got made for the late game.

Yes, so much this! I've always wanted this! Pre-ordering right now!