Translation/Text Issues/Errors!

[lunasmeow]

Suikoden I
You guys made a slight translation mistake that is crucial to the first game.

In Warrior's village, the hint (you get this talking to one of the random NPCs in town) is supposed to be "In the forest, not just at night, even while you work, praise the king."

For some reason, you put Praise the King first instead of last, which ruins the hint to the order of the pictures in Neclord's Castle. Need a small patch to fix that!

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3442830668

Suikoden II

When in Victor and Flik's camp, Pohl tells you to get two boots, but he doesn't tell you about the flour or the flint - you go back to him and he tells you you're missing it, but he never told you to get it in the first place. I only knew where to go to get it because I remembered from the OG.

[Tenshu]

Clearly the remaster wants us to feel like Pohl deserved it later :P

[Ray Rook]

Suikoden 1's looks right to me.

The zombie in the castle gives better hints.

Start with the 2nd from the right (Picture 3) In the Forest, it's a picture of a forest.
Then with the 3rd from the right (Picture 2) Not Just at Night, questionably a picture of bright sun.

You'd then you can process of elimination with the other two clues...

(Picture 4) Even While At work / Picture of a person with a basket.

(Picture 1) Praise the King / Person with a royal red cloak.

3, 2, 4, 1

[lunasmeow]

Originally posted by Ray Rook:

Suikoden 1's looks right to me.

The zombie in the castle gives better hints.

Start with the 2nd from the right (Picture 3) In the Forest, it's a picture of a forest.
Then with the 3rd from the right (Picture 2) Not Just at Night, questionably a picture of bright sun.

You'd then you can process of elimination with the other two clues...

(Picture 4) Even While At work / Picture of a person with a basket.

(Picture 1) Praise the King / Person with a royal red cloak.

3, 2, 4, 1

"Praise our King, even in the forest, not only at night, but also during work."

That's what the man in town says. It's LITERALLY wrong. You aren't reading what I said correctly. The pictures are right. The HINT is wrong. In the original game, the hint was correct. "In the forest, not just at night, even while you work, praise the king." They messed up the hint's order. Not the paintings. That's why it's a translation error, rather than a bug of some other kind.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3442830668

This hint, that you're told is specifically from the "only man to ever survive Neclord's castle" is incorrect because they screwed up. Thanks for trying though.

[Tenshu]

Originally posted by lunasmeow:

Originally posted by Ray Rook:

Suikoden 1's looks right to me.

The zombie in the castle gives better hints.

Start with the 2nd from the right (Picture 3) In the Forest, it's a picture of a forest.
Then with the 3rd from the right (Picture 2) Not Just at Night, questionably a picture of bright sun.

You'd then you can process of elimination with the other two clues...

(Picture 4) Even While At work / Picture of a person with a basket.

(Picture 1) Praise the King / Person with a royal red cloak.

3, 2, 4, 1

"Praise our King, even in the forest, not only at night, but also during work."

That's what the man in town says. It's LITERALLY wrong. You aren't reading what I said correctly. The pictures are right. The HINT is wrong. In the original game, the hint was correct. "In the forest, not just at night, even while you work, praise the king." They messed up the hint's order. Not the paintings. That's why it's a translation error, rather than a bug of some other kind.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3442830668

This hint, that you're told is specifically from the "only man to ever survive Neclord's castle" is incorrect because they screwed up. Thanks for trying though.

It isn't wrong. Read it again.
Praise our king EVEN blah blah blah.
In the original its going 1,2,3 4 but the remaster is going 4 even 1,2,3.

You can argue the textual variance was unnecessary but the meaning is kept.

Or perhaps they made the survivor's hint slightly vague so it flows well with the zombie's hints for the full package. Like the picture labeled King of the Night. The survivor's hint says the King is last while the zombie says Neclord calls himself King of the Night, therefore since the painting looks like Neclord, it must be last.

[Ray Rook]

Guess it depends on what it says in Japanese more than anything if you're looking for mistranslations.

[lunasmeow]

Originally posted by Tenshu:

Originally posted by lunasmeow:

"Praise our King, even in the forest, not only at night, but also during work."

That's what the man in town says. It's LITERALLY wrong. You aren't reading what I said correctly. The pictures are right. The HINT is wrong. In the original game, the hint was correct. "In the forest, not just at night, even while you work, praise the king." They messed up the hint's order. Not the paintings. That's why it's a translation error, rather than a bug of some other kind.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3442830668

This hint, that you're told is specifically from the "only man to ever survive Neclord's castle" is incorrect because they screwed up. Thanks for trying though.

It isn't wrong. Read it again.
Praise our king EVEN blah blah blah.
In the original its going 1,2,3 4 but the remaster is going 4 even 1,2,3.

You can argue the textual variance was unnecessary but the meaning is kept.

Or perhaps they made the survivor's hint slightly vague so it flows well with the zombie's hints for the full package. Like the picture labeled King of the Night. The survivor's hint says the King is last while the zombie says Neclord calls himself King of the Night, therefore since the painting looks like Neclord, it must be last.

I realize that the meaning of the phrase is kept. But the meaning isn't what I said was wrong. Nor is it really that important as compared to the ORDER of the phrases, because the entire point of the hint was to tell you what ORDER to press the painting buttons in. Otherwise you have to sit there doing permutations using trial and error, and with 4 options, there are 24 different combinations to try. Which is why the order in this case was the way it was in the original. So yeah, it's wrong. The text may be correct, but that's not the "wrong" that I was pointing out. As I made clear in the original post if you read it correctly.

The proof of this is simple - you don't need the hint if you're going to force people to try permutations in the first place. Because the paintings aren't hidden, or some kind of "subtle background thing" that people wouldn't know to press without the hint. They're LITERALLY front and center, with nothing else there and no way to progress, so it's OBVIOUS that you interact with them. As such, the ONLY possible reason for the hint is to show the order, rather than to draw attention to them in the first place, which makes the order being wrong ruin the hint. The ONLY way it would make sense to give a "hint" to the paintings but have it be in the wrong order was if the paintings were NOT something we obviously needed to interact with. THEN you could claim that the hint was about letting us know to focus on them so the order didn't matter. But since we KNOW to focus on them by merit of how they're presented... the hint HAS to be aiming at the order. In which case...

This is very simple game/level design logic. I'm just right on this one.

[Tenshu]

Originally posted by lunasmeow:

Originally posted by Tenshu:

It isn't wrong. Read it again.
Praise our king EVEN blah blah blah.
In the original its going 1,2,3 4 but the remaster is going 4 even 1,2,3.

You can argue the textual variance was unnecessary but the meaning is kept.

Or perhaps they made the survivor's hint slightly vague so it flows well with the zombie's hints for the full package. Like the picture labeled King of the Night. The survivor's hint says the King is last while the zombie says Neclord calls himself King of the Night, therefore since the painting looks like Neclord, it must be last.

I realize that the meaning of the phrase is kept. But the meaning isn't as important as the order, because the entire point of the hint was to tell you what ORDER to press the painting buttons in. Otherwise you have to sit there doing permutations, and with 4 options, there are 24 different combinations to try. So yeah, it's wrong.

You didn't read the second part of what I said, I'm guessing because you really want to feel right. The order is kept, it's just a little vague so the zombie's hints actually help. The OG translation just gives you the exact order to where the zombie is a waste of time and money. They're both supposed to be important.
However reading the survivor's hint carefully enough you get the og's order anyway because of wording and reading comprehension.

"Praise our King, even in the forest, not only at night, but also during work."
Praise our King EVEN, so that right there tells you it's the very last. Anything else after, the EVEN would tell you praising the king will always come after, therefore last. "In the forest, not only at night, but also during work" this shows a clear order because of "but also". What permutations are you talking about? You're just overthinking.

[lunasmeow]

Originally posted by Tenshu:

Originally posted by lunasmeow:

I realize that the meaning of the phrase is kept. But the meaning isn't as important as the order, because the entire point of the hint was to tell you what ORDER to press the painting buttons in. Otherwise you have to sit there doing permutations, and with 4 options, there are 24 different combinations to try. So yeah, it's wrong.

You didn't read the second part of what I said, I'm guessing because you really want to feel right. The order is kept, it's just a little vague so the zombie's hints actually help. The OG translation just gives you the exact order to where the zombie is a waste of time and money. They're both supposed to be important.
However reading the survivor's hint carefully enough you get the og's order anyway because of wording and reading conprehension.

I could go into a lengthy explanation of why the order is not kept, explaining the point of commas, their placement in particular, and how they matter so as to compare to the paintings, rather than your claim that they're saying do all these other things before praising the king but.. frankly it's not that serious.

The zombie's hint is there for people who missed/didn't grasp the importance of the Warrior's Village guy. Not to make "both important" but rather as a "pay for help if you can't figure it out". And also for those who just don't normally talk to all NPC's , because surprise, LOTS of players don't talk to NPC's at all when they aren't forced to. Which is why he charges whereas the village guy doesn't. The word "even" does NOT do what you claim it does. I read your comment in full, that's just not how the word works.

Anyway, I'm finished with this little distraction, because at this point it's becoming pointless. I was here to explain, not argue nonsense. You don't even know what permutations are/would be... it's clear you're not able to grasp these concepts. So I won't waste time arguing with you further. You took "you misunderstood" as an insult rather than a simple statement of fact, so you're just being oversensitive and reacting emotionally. Enjoy.

[Ray Rook]

The way I easily figured it out was the Zombie tips. It literally says start with the 2nd one from the right and then move on to the third.

Combined with the tip from the village... I continued the order skipping the king to get the far right picture. Then I chose the first.

Was an easy puzzle.

As far as mistranslation... I can't read Japanese so I have no idea if it's written more succinctly in Japanese.

[Tenshu]

Originally posted by lunasmeow:

Originally posted by Tenshu:

You didn't read the second part of what I said, I'm guessing because you really want to feel right. The order is kept, it's just a little vague so the zombie's hints actually help. The OG translation just gives you the exact order to where the zombie is a waste of time and money. They're both supposed to be important.
However reading the survivor's hint carefully enough you get the og's order anyway because of wording and reading conprehension.

I could go into a lengthy explanation of why the order is not kept, explaining the point of commas and how they matter so as to compare to the paintings, rather than your claim that they're saying do all these other things but.. frankly it's not that serious.

The zombie's hint is there for people who missed/didn't grasp the importance of the Warrior's Village guy. Not to make "both important" but rather as a "pay for help if you can't figure it out". Which is why he charges whereas the village guy doesn't. The word "even" does NOT do what you claim it does, I read your comment in full. That's just not how the word works.

Anyway, I'm finished with this little distraction, because at this point it's becoming pointless. I was here to explain, not argue nonsense.

Ironic when you brought up the actual nonsense and then became intellectually dishonest about it when shown the faults in it but all right, bruh.

"Praise our King, even in the forest, not only at night, not only when taking a ♥♥♥♥, peeking in Jeane's room, grinding for Main-gauches, even finding the 108 stars, but also during work."
See how despite all the other ♥♥♥♥ I added praising the King is still very much implied to come last in the load order.

Edit: Oh since you want to insult via edit, I have no problem burying you in one myself so anyone else bothering to read can see how foolish you're being.
I didn't see anything you said as an insult other than your last edit. Sure seemed like you took "you're wrong" as one though. You claimed the remaster's line would imply 24 permutations when it's being very clear on order, that's why I asked what are these permutations you're getting from that line.
The usage of the even?
""Even in" functions similarly to "even though" or "even if," emphasizing a statement despite a condition."
What are we doing when we emphasize something? We're making it paramount aren't we? So break down the line.
Praise our King, even in the forest - What should you be doing while in the forest? Praising our King.
Praise our King, not only at night - This implies you Praise our King EVEN at night.
Praise our King, also during work - So while you're working what should you be doing too?
The remaster is clear in saying Praise our King no matter if you're doing x, y, or z. Therefore it's last as part of this load order. I simply take issue with people who can't be honest.
You even ignored what I said about harmonizing the survivor's and zombie's hints. I clearly stated they were hypotheticals as to why they changed the line to begin with when the meaning and order went unchanged (you even acknowledged the meaning did not change which includes the order so you even buried yourself).

[lunasmeow]

Originally posted by Ray Rook:

The way I easily figured it out was the Zombie tips. It literally says start with the 2nd one from the right and then move on to the third.

Combined with the tip from the village... I continued the order skipping the king to get the far right picture. Then I chose the first.

Was an easy puzzle.

As far as mistranslation... I can't read Japanese so I have no idea if it's written more succinctly in Japanese.

Yup, the zombie certainly makes it easier! It how my cousin figured it out back in the day. (He's one of those people who doesn't really talk to NPC's, and frankly skipped most of the conversation, only paying attention to key words and moving on - far too many people play that way, which is why lots of older games would have colored text for key phrases and such.) There's the more "subtle" - but honestly still kinda obvious - hint, and the more blatant one because they didn't want players to be "stuck" like some old games could do if you missed a small detail. You had to pay a price for not exploring and/or remembering, but it was a "get out of jail free" type card, so your progress wasn't hindered too badly.

It was also there because some people didn't even know you could actually LEAVE Neclord's Castle after entering, not realizing that if you talked to the Chief he'd move - so they wanted to be SUPER SURE there was an "easy" way to finish the castle in case you'd saved over your recent file and believed you were trapped. Since if you didn't know you could leave the castle, you wouldn't even be able to get back to the village to see the hint again.

Basically it was a way of including a simple puzzle while still making it "error proof" so nobody could be truly stuck. Without that hint, lots of people would be stuck doing permutations of the various potential orders of the paintings and that's... tedious. Even with just four paintings and thus only 24 permutations.

[Tenshu]

Originally posted by Ray Rook:

The way I easily figured it out was the Zombie tips. It literally says start with the 2nd one from the right and then move on to the third.

Combined with the tip from the village... I continued the order skipping the king to get the far right picture. Then I chose the first.

Was an easy puzzle.

As far as mistranslation... I can't read Japanese so I have no idea if it's written more succinctly in Japanese.

The final zombie "hint" is up for debate on whether it's bad or inconsequential.
The og was... something. Where the zombie says "Master Neclord... googly goo".
The remaster though translates the Japanese literally. The zombie really is saying Neclord has an outie. In Japanese culture however, saying someone has an outie is the equivalent of a little generic insult, so the zombie is calling Neclord a dummy.

[Tenshu]

As for the hint, looking at the Japanese script... oh my, lol. The zombie is the one who gives the full order the same as how the remaster translates the survivor's hint but without the "even if" part:
「げへっ、こ、これだけ？
　じゃーー、な、ないしょだけど、

　・・「森のなかでも、
　夜だけでなく、
　仕事の間も、
　われらが王をたたえよ」・・

　と、ネクロードさまは、
　いつも、われわれに、ゆうんだなー、
　げへへ。」

"Hehe, is that all?
　Well, I'll tell you a secret,

　"Praise our King in the forest,
　not only at night, but
　also while at work "

　That's what Neclord-sama
　always tells us, hehehe."

Edit: Further research shows both translations being used for that particular line. Literal translation fits more the survivor's hint in the og but the remaster's is accepted as well to mean the same thing (you can run the hint through various translators and you'll get both versions). Given Japanese is almost annoyingly rooted in contextual rules and this is coming from the zombie who says Neclord tells them this, safe to assume no matter what praising their King, ie Neclord, is paramount and therefore the last painting.
I'm more wondering now why they changed the zombie's clear hint to what we got. Did they think we'd get pissed off having to pay for a solution that could be made back in a single battle? Lol

[BlitzKriegJesus]

I haven't seen anyone mention it yet, but I noticed yesterday while playing Suikoden II that when you're on the quest to go to the Cave of the Wind to grab the Celestial Sword, Nanami says "Celesital" instead of "Celestial." It's almost a blink and you'll miss it error.

[Tenshu]

Originally posted by BlitzKriegJesus:

I haven't seen anyone mention it yet, but I noticed yesterday while playing Suikoden II that when you're on the quest to go to the Cave of the Wind to grab the Celestial Sword, Nanami says "Celesital" instead of "Celestial." It's almost a blink and you'll miss it error.

Varkas in S1 also says they have a "vistor" lol