Dear Devs... Math

[Smketreez]

I've noticed there's quite a few areas in the game where when we sit and do the math on things, things get, odd.

For instance, let's say you want to grow wheat and make flour. Well, in most games, you get seeds, plant seeds, grow wheat, harvest, craft. Usually one planting would yeild X amount of wheat, then it would take X amount to make 1 flour. Makes sense.
Here however, it takes 5 wheat to make 1 seed, you plant that seed, and you get 1 wheat back upon harvest. So you just lost 4 wheat. Then it takes 10 wheat to make 1 flour. The math here is wrong on so many levels. This needs to be something more intuitive. 5 wheat should make 5 seeds, then upon harvest at the very least 1 harvest should yield 2 wheat each plant. This leaves you with 5 wheat to make 5 more seeds, and 5 wheat to use for flour. <--- in its current form this entire system makes planting useless.

Wire - just what? 1 wire = 1 ingot. How big is that wire?! You should again get multiple wire per ingot, that's just logical. granted I get ingots are plentiful, ore is everywhere so this one really isn't as absurd as the wheat mentioned above.

Building Limits math - We can have 350 items placed in our realm. items being chests, lights, crafting stations, etc.
We can have a total of 100 separate building structures.
Each building structure can have 300 components (walls, floor, roof, doors, etc).
So we can have 100 buildings multiplied by 300 components giving us 30,000 buildings pieces used, but only 350 items? let's take this section alone and do some quick math.

Preface - these numbers represent the things I currently have unlocked.
Crafting stations (basic + refinement) = 12
Augments for those stations = 21
Max players on a realm at a time = 6
math time! - (12 + 21) x 6 = 198
Each player uses (for example) 5 chests and 1 bed each.
So we take our 198 + 36 = 234
Now we know we have an item limit of 350 so we take 350 - 234 = 116 then we divide that number by 6 for the total player amount and we're left with 19 and change. So each player on a full realm gets 19 items to "decorate" their house with. 19...

Six players on a realm don't need 100 buildings, but they DO need to be able to put items out in their base. With that many crafting stations and required augments you're essentially leaving them with nothing left to actually make a house / base functional. That's also considering they build a small structure so all the augments link where needed, otherwise they'd need multiple augments which cuts that remaining 19 down even more.

So again players can have a limit of 30,00 walls but only 350 of the things they actually need. Bad math. By the way on this note, the pre-generated items and structures on an Abeyance realm... those are counting against our limits too! If this isn't intended it needs fixed The UI is 100% counting them, just run around an Abeyance realm with build menu (X) open and see the UI count them as you get near at the bottom of the scree. You can't place a limit on players then use part of that yourself.

There's probably more things I'll run into as I play, these are just the things I've noticed thus far where the math just doesn't add up.

[Scarletheart]

yes! I totally agree!! the wheat part is so frustrating to me!

[GrailQuest]

Also 4 Vials of Water costs 10 Essence but decon into 40 Essence.
But I guess that saves me a lot of time from picking up everything not nailed down to break it down into Essence.

[Smketreez]

Originally posted by GrailQuest:

Also 4 Vials of Water costs 10 Essence but decon into 40 Essence.
But I guess that saves me a lot of time from picking up everything not nailed down to break it down into Essence.

I hadn't even noticed this one. Good catch. There's a similar thing going on with marbles. Rocks = 1 essence each 100 rocks makes 320 marbles, and a marble = 2 essence each.
So 100 rocks crafted into marbles then deconstructed into essence give you 640 essence.

[SaberToothDeathMouse]

Wow. Well, thank you for doing the math for those of us that hadn't really stopped to consider it (yet). I haven''t had a LOT of time to play yet (maybe 15 hrs in game, if that, so far), but I did notice when I was building there was a "limit" imposed.

I hate to "beat a dead horse", but I have to wonder if those building/decorating limits are because (oh god...)... it's "online only" and they have to keep their servers from being eaten up by static structures having to be loaded in.

Btw, I'm not one of those that have complained about it being online only, so please don't misunderstand my bringing it up here.

[Smketreez]

Originally posted by SaberToothDeathMouse:

Wow. Well, thank you for doing the math for those of us that hadn't really stopped to consider it (yet). I haven''t had a LOT of time to play yet (maybe 15 hrs in game, if that, so far), but I did notice when I was building there was a "limit" imposed.

I hate to "beat a dead horse", but I have to wonder if those building/decorating limits are because (oh god...)... it's "online only" and they have to keep their servers from being eaten up by static structures having to be loaded in.

Btw, I'm not one of those that have complained about it being online only, so please don't misunderstand my bringing it up here.

I'd say that yes, those limits are imposed to keep the load on the server down, however, the reason I pointed out the difference between building components allowing for up to say 30,000 walls but yet only 350 chests for instance means something is wrong.
While of course everything we add to the world will add load to the server, why on earth would they budget for 100 buildings with 300 parts? 99% of players will never hit that limit, ever, so take some of that budget and put it back into allowing us to place more items.

[Kaziklu78]

As it stands right now planting is basically cosmetic... It really seems to be a net loss not a net gain on resources. They really do need to adjust that.

[BaKen]

Put bounty charm on your watering can, youll get 3 each time

[BaKen]

Also play a farm minor card to douible yield and 2x seed craft

[Smketreez]

Originally posted by BaKen:

Also play a farm minor card to douible yield and 2x seed craft

Yes, there is bonuses, neither of those change the fact the base system doesn't work.

[Funreaver]

After finding the wheat thing but just with blueberries, i was wondering if I just did something wrong and took the forum. This is a real bummer and makes farming super uninteresting, as it takes even more item placements away, without any real additions.

Its faster for me to just go to a realm where they are available and return with plenty than farming and having a netloss on seeds. I was so happy when the bush was ready, at the very least it should have just returned the seed and yield 1 blueberry. I understand that this would maybe remove the need to go back to the realms to get more of the plants but at the same time the time invest into a farm and actually a nice garden with all the flowers and plants collected would have been a great motivation to me.

With current system I will probably not add more farming beds and not touch that watering can anymore.

Thanks for pointing out that there is a card that makes farming a little less pointless but still not good enough to bother with the efforts.

[Melchiah3000]

if they made everything super easy without the use of minor realm cards there would literally be no point in having minor realm cards. use the proper cards and the bounty charm and you gain every time you harvest seeds. you have the tools available you just need to get them and utilize them.

[Melchiah3000]

Originally posted by Smketreez:

Originally posted by BaKen:

Also play a farm minor card to douible yield and 2x seed craft

Yes, there is bonuses, neither of those change the fact the base system doesn't work.

the bonuses are part of the base game. so it does work, you have to utilize everything given to you for things to work well. you put in minor effort you get minor returns. I think it's good they're making us think about what we're doing instead of another mindless grind survival. most survival games end up being a Hoarding simulation game

[Razor]

Originally posted by Smketreez:

I've noticed there's quite a few areas in the game where when we sit and do the math on things, things get, odd.

For instance, let's say you want to grow wheat and make flour. Well, in most games, you get seeds, plant seeds, grow wheat, harvest, craft. Usually one planting would yeild X amount of wheat, then it would take X amount to make 1 flour. Makes sense.
Here however, it takes 5 wheat to make 1 seed, you plant that seed, and you get 1 wheat back upon harvest. So you just lost 4 wheat. Then it takes 10 wheat to make 1 flour. The math here is wrong on so many levels. This needs to be something more intuitive. 5 wheat should make 5 seeds, then upon harvest at the very least 1 harvest should yield 2 wheat each plant. This leaves you with 5 wheat to make 5 more seeds, and 5 wheat to use for flour. <--- in its current form this entire system makes planting useless.

Wire - just what? 1 wire = 1 ingot. How big is that wire?! You should again get multiple wire per ingot, that's just logical. granted I get ingots are plentiful, ore is everywhere so this one really isn't as absurd as the wheat mentioned above.

Building Limits math - We can have 350 items placed in our realm. items being chests, lights, crafting stations, etc.
We can have a total of 100 separate building structures.
Each building structure can have 300 components (walls, floor, roof, doors, etc).
So we can have 100 buildings multiplied by 300 components giving us 30,000 buildings pieces used, but only 350 items? let's take this section alone and do some quick math.

Preface - these numbers represent the things I currently have unlocked.
Crafting stations (basic + refinement) = 12
Augments for those stations = 21
Max players on a realm at a time = 6
math time! - (12 + 21) x 6 = 198
Each player uses (for example) 5 chests and 1 bed each.
So we take our 198 + 36 = 234
Now we know we have an item limit of 350 so we take 350 - 234 = 116 then we divide that number by 6 for the total player amount and we're left with 19 and change. So each player on a full realm gets 19 items to "decorate" their house with. 19...

Six players on a realm don't need 100 buildings, but they DO need to be able to put items out in their base. With that many crafting stations and required augments you're essentially leaving them with nothing left to actually make a house / base functional. That's also considering they build a small structure so all the augments link where needed, otherwise they'd need multiple augments which cuts that remaining 19 down even more.

So again players can have a limit of 30,00 walls but only 350 of the things they actually need. Bad math. By the way on this note, the pre-generated items and structures on an Abeyance realm... those are counting against our limits too! If this isn't intended it needs fixed The UI is 100% counting them, just run around an Abeyance realm with build menu (X) open and see the UI count them as you get near at the bottom of the scree. You can't place a limit on players then use part of that yourself.

There's probably more things I'll run into as I play, these are just the things I've noticed thus far where the math just doesn't add up.

Oh man I laughed so hard reading this. The sad thing is its all true. Me and my wife feel your pain. Well drafted post for the dev's to hopefully rethink some "Math"

[Landover]

Originally posted by Smketreez:

I've noticed there's quite a few areas in the game where when we sit and do the math on things, things get, odd.

For instance, let's say you want to grow wheat and make flour. Well, in most games, you get seeds, plant seeds, grow wheat, harvest, craft. Usually one planting would yeild X amount of wheat, then it would take X amount to make 1 flour. Makes sense.
Here however, it takes 5 wheat to make 1 seed, you plant that seed, and you get 1 wheat back upon harvest. So you just lost 4 wheat. Then it takes 10 wheat to make 1 flour. The math here is wrong on so many levels. This needs to be something more intuitive. 5 wheat should make 5 seeds, then upon harvest at the very least 1 harvest should yield 2 wheat each plant. This leaves you with 5 wheat to make 5 more seeds, and 5 wheat to use for flour. <--- in its current form this entire system makes planting useless.

Wire - just what? 1 wire = 1 ingot. How big is that wire?! You should again get multiple wire per ingot, that's just logical. granted I get ingots are plentiful, ore is everywhere so this one really isn't as absurd as the wheat mentioned above.

Building Limits math - We can have 350 items placed in our realm. items being chests, lights, crafting stations, etc.
We can have a total of 100 separate building structures.
Each building structure can have 300 components (walls, floor, roof, doors, etc).
So we can have 100 buildings multiplied by 300 components giving us 30,000 buildings pieces used, but only 350 items? let's take this section alone and do some quick math.

Preface - these numbers represent the things I currently have unlocked.
Crafting stations (basic + refinement) = 12
Augments for those stations = 21
Max players on a realm at a time = 6
math time! - (12 + 21) x 6 = 198
Each player uses (for example) 5 chests and 1 bed each.
So we take our 198 + 36 = 234
Now we know we have an item limit of 350 so we take 350 - 234 = 116 then we divide that number by 6 for the total player amount and we're left with 19 and change. So each player on a full realm gets 19 items to "decorate" their house with. 19...

Six players on a realm don't need 100 buildings, but they DO need to be able to put items out in their base. With that many crafting stations and required augments you're essentially leaving them with nothing left to actually make a house / base functional. That's also considering they build a small structure so all the augments link where needed, otherwise they'd need multiple augments which cuts that remaining 19 down even more.

So again players can have a limit of 30,00 walls but only 350 of the things they actually need. Bad math. By the way on this note, the pre-generated items and structures on an Abeyance realm... those are counting against our limits too! If this isn't intended it needs fixed The UI is 100% counting them, just run around an Abeyance realm with build menu (X) open and see the UI count them as you get near at the bottom of the scree. You can't place a limit on players then use part of that yourself.

There's probably more things I'll run into as I play, these are just the things I've noticed thus far where the math just doesn't add up.

"Now we know we have an item limit of 350 so we take 350 - 234 = 116 then we divide that number by 6 for the total player amount and we're left with 19 and change. So each player on a full realm gets 19 items to "decorate" their house with. 19..."

Enjoy a treasure box! Thanks for the post from a fellow builder to another.

[iCeDrAgOn]

There is other math in the game that doesn't make sense either.

like pretty much the weight of everything refined from something else weighing more than the product it is refined from.

Lumber weighs more than logs
leather weighing more than pelts
cooked meat weighs more than the meat it was cooked from.