Less than 1 Month, Already Less Than 1k Players

[lemstryz]

They fumbled so hard with the server issues that I don't think this game is going to recover. This game needs more marketing and it needs to go free to play or else devs will eventually have no income to fund servers.

[JamesTBG]

Originally posted by Cypherous:

Originally posted by JamesTBG:

No i don´t but whenever I want to play - early in the morning, midday, afternoon - (europe) i need less than 30s to find a match.

You forgot the important caveat here

"For now"

Yes you currently have no queue issues because i would imagine that proper skill based matchmaking doesn't really get used in the normal queues, wait until ranked rolls around and you actually notice the queue times, well that and the player count is still dropping by the day

So you're imagining a future and arguing based on it not to play the game now because it's possible that the players might stop playing much faster. Seriously?

[Nero]

Bugs and lack of balance murdered this game. Indeed, marketing cannot fix that. Good games can easily market themselves and Gigantic already had the cult following for that - but not with current bugs and "balance".

[JamesTBG]

Can you expand on bugs/balance?

[Cypherous]

Originally posted by JamesTBG:

Originally posted by Cypherous:

You forgot the important caveat here

"For now"

Yes you currently have no queue issues because i would imagine that proper skill based matchmaking doesn't really get used in the normal queues, wait until ranked rolls around and you actually notice the queue times, well that and the player count is still dropping by the day

So you're imagining a future and arguing based on it not to play the game now because it's possible that the players might stop playing much faster. Seriously?

When its a buy to play product definitely, if the game doesn't appear to have a future i wouldn't suggest to anyone to buy it, its not like the game has a single player campaign that will work regardless, the game lives and dies by its playercount and when it can't retain players that indicates a problem

[Zrehael]

Originally posted by Cypherous:

Originally posted by JamesTBG:

So you're imagining a future and arguing based on it not to play the game now because it's possible that the players might stop playing much faster. Seriously?

When its a buy to play product definitely, if the game doesn't appear to have a future i wouldn't suggest to anyone to buy it, its not like the game has a single player campaign that will work regardless, the game lives and dies by its playercount and when it can't retain players that indicates a problem

I'm gonna keep saying this because the people who keep bringing up the concerns about the game shutting down again really don't seem to get it: We'll be fine. Not every game is going to have 400,000 players logging in daily. We'll have enough to keep matches going on reasonable time frames, and that's all you really need.

If the game shuts down? Community's already spun up private servers once, ain't hard to imagine they'd do it again. Hell, it'd be even easier for people to keep going this time around, given the netcode for peer-to-peer is already in the game for custom matches, so private servers wouldn't even really be necessary. Even if the game shut down tomorrow, the people who want to play Gigantic... can still play Gigantic.

$20 upfront, unlock everything in game by gameplay and zero microtransactions, and there's a clear way to play even if official support ends entirely? Sorry, I'm not seeing the problem.

[JamesTBG]

Originally posted by Zrehael:

Originally posted by Cypherous:

When its a buy to play product definitely, if the game doesn't appear to have a future i wouldn't suggest to anyone to buy it, its not like the game has a single player campaign that will work regardless, the game lives and dies by its playercount and when it can't retain players that indicates a problem

I'm gonna keep saying this because the people who keep bringing up the concerns about the game shutting down again really don't seem to get it: We'll be fine. Not every game is going to have 400,000 players logging in daily. We'll have enough to keep matches going on reasonable time frames, and that's all you really need.

If the game shuts down? Community's already spun up private servers once, ain't hard to imagine they'd do it again. Hell, it'd be even easier for people to keep going this time around, given the netcode for peer-to-peer is already in the game for custom matches, so private servers wouldn't even really be necessary. Even if the game shut down tomorrow, the people who want to play Gigantic... can still play Gigantic.

$20 upfront, unlock everything in game by gameplay and zero microtransactions, and there's a clear way to play even if official support ends entirely? Sorry, I'm not seeing the problem.

I guess there is no point argueing anymore. There are people who only accept GamesAsAService to be worth their time. $20 for 25+ h of fun gameplay, I am bought in. Anyways, Let them spend hundreds of dollars on skins and cosmetics. Their choice.

[Cypherous]

Originally posted by Zrehael:

Originally posted by Cypherous:

When its a buy to play product definitely, if the game doesn't appear to have a future i wouldn't suggest to anyone to buy it, its not like the game has a single player campaign that will work regardless, the game lives and dies by its playercount and when it can't retain players that indicates a problem

I'm gonna keep saying this because the people who keep bringing up the concerns about the game shutting down again really don't seem to get it: We'll be fine. Not every game is going to have 400,000 players logging in daily. We'll have enough to keep matches going on reasonable time frames, and that's all you really need.

If the game shuts down? Community's already spun up private servers once, ain't hard to imagine they'd do it again. Hell, it'd be even easier for people to keep going this time around, given the netcode for peer-to-peer is already in the game for custom matches, so private servers wouldn't even really be necessary. Even if the game shut down tomorrow, the people who want to play Gigantic... can still play Gigantic.

$20 upfront, unlock everything in game by gameplay and zero microtransactions, and there's a clear way to play even if official support ends entirely? Sorry, I'm not seeing the problem.

See games don't need 400k players, they need revenue, this game has no recurring revenue and it costs money to operate and maintain

And once ranked rolls around you'll see the effects of such a small playerbase, the OG version had the same issue back in the day, i still have a database of the top 500 players from the OG game and the MMR difference spans about 2500 points between 1 and 500

And sure you can go back to your private servers, but nothing really changes in that regard as the game will still have failed for the second time because they didn't learn from their previous mistakes :)

[Cypherous]

Originally posted by JamesTBG:

Originally posted by Zrehael:

I'm gonna keep saying this because the people who keep bringing up the concerns about the game shutting down again really don't seem to get it: We'll be fine. Not every game is going to have 400,000 players logging in daily. We'll have enough to keep matches going on reasonable time frames, and that's all you really need.

If the game shuts down? Community's already spun up private servers once, ain't hard to imagine they'd do it again. Hell, it'd be even easier for people to keep going this time around, given the netcode for peer-to-peer is already in the game for custom matches, so private servers wouldn't even really be necessary. Even if the game shut down tomorrow, the people who want to play Gigantic... can still play Gigantic.

$20 upfront, unlock everything in game by gameplay and zero microtransactions, and there's a clear way to play even if official support ends entirely? Sorry, I'm not seeing the problem.

I guess there is no point argueing anymore. There are people who only accept GamesAsAService to be worth their time. $20 for 25+ h of fun gameplay, I am bought in. Anyways, Let them spend hundreds of dollars on skins and cosmetics. Their choice.

This was never an argument, it was a statement of facts, and no a game doesn't need to be a service to be worth my time, it has to be good, it has to run well and it has to have a playerbase large enough to support all levels of play, this game is lacking in all those departments and that is why its going to fail, again

[Zrehael]

Originally posted by Cypherous:

Originally posted by Zrehael:

I'm gonna keep saying this because the people who keep bringing up the concerns about the game shutting down again really don't seem to get it: We'll be fine. Not every game is going to have 400,000 players logging in daily. We'll have enough to keep matches going on reasonable time frames, and that's all you really need.

If the game shuts down? Community's already spun up private servers once, ain't hard to imagine they'd do it again. Hell, it'd be even easier for people to keep going this time around, given the netcode for peer-to-peer is already in the game for custom matches, so private servers wouldn't even really be necessary. Even if the game shut down tomorrow, the people who want to play Gigantic... can still play Gigantic.

$20 upfront, unlock everything in game by gameplay and zero microtransactions, and there's a clear way to play even if official support ends entirely? Sorry, I'm not seeing the problem.

See games don't need 400k players, they need revenue, this game has no recurring revenue and it costs money to operate and maintain

And once ranked rolls around you'll see the effects of such a small playerbase, the OG version had the same issue back in the day, i still have a database of the top 500 players from the OG game and the MMR difference spans about 2500 points between 1 and 500

And sure you can go back to your private servers, but nothing really changes in that regard as the game will still have failed for the second time because they didn't learn from their previous mistakes :)

I think you and I have very different ideas of what constitutes failure.

If they had re-released this game as a $20 game with microtransactions and the usual greedy fixings of modern day monetization and the game failed to support itself? I'd be right with you in calling it a failure. If they did the same but made it free instead, I'd still agree. But that wasn't what happened.

The game was marketed on a few simple points: Gigantic's coming back, it's following a buy-to-play model with no microtransactions, we're going to have peer-to-peer custom lobbies available and we're also going to be including this content that was cut from the original run of the game that never made it into the game before its shutdown. Why would a multiplayer game like this advertise an option for peer-to-peer connectivity and unreleased content? Because the whole point was to advertise this to the fans. That small, niche community that's kept on since 2018. It's not trying to compete against every other MOBA or hero shooter out there. It's just trying to return Gigantic to the people who enjoyed it.

At the end of the day, if they have to close the servers again (which, look, eventually all games will, unless you somehow think your favorite titles are going to survive the heat death of the universe), it's irrelevant. Development's done. The game's done. But unlike other games in this sphere, it's still going to be available for people to play as they want. Get some friends together, pop in for a game or two as you like. You don't need Arc Games to keep it afloat.

What part of that am I supposed to consider failure?

[Cypherous]

Originally posted by Zrehael:

Originally posted by Cypherous:

See games don't need 400k players, they need revenue, this game has no recurring revenue and it costs money to operate and maintain

And once ranked rolls around you'll see the effects of such a small playerbase, the OG version had the same issue back in the day, i still have a database of the top 500 players from the OG game and the MMR difference spans about 2500 points between 1 and 500

And sure you can go back to your private servers, but nothing really changes in that regard as the game will still have failed for the second time because they didn't learn from their previous mistakes :)

I think you and I have very different ideas of what constitutes failure.

If they had re-released this game as a $20 game with microtransactions and the usual greedy fixings of modern day monetization and the game failed to support itself? I'd be right with you in calling it a failure. If they did the same but made it free instead, I'd still agree. But that wasn't what happened.

The game was marketed on a few simple points: Gigantic's coming back, it's following a buy-to-play model with no microtransactions, we're going to have peer-to-peer custom lobbies available and we're also going to be including this content that was cut from the original run of the game that never made it into the game before its shutdown. Why would a multiplayer game like this advertise an option for peer-to-peer connectivity and unreleased content? Because the whole point was to advertise this to the fans. That small, niche community that's kept on since 2018. It's not trying to compete against every other MOBA or hero shooter out there. It's just trying to return Gigantic to the people who enjoyed it.

At the end of the day, if they have to close the servers again (which, look, eventually all games will, unless you somehow think your favorite titles are going to survive the heat death of the universe), it's irrelevant. Development's done. The game's done. But unlike other games in this sphere, it's still going to be available for people to play as they want. Get some friends together, pop in for a game or two as you like. You don't need Arc Games to keep it afloat.

What part of that am I supposed to consider failure?

What part do i consider a failure? the entire thing, there is no scenario where they even really broke even on what it cost them to revive the game

You're right in that it was meant to appeal to the niche group of fans that existed, but they did it because they hoped it would actually make some money rather than them lost it

So yes i consider this a commercial failure, as would literally anyone looking at the game rationally

And the difference is that the servers will be closing sooner rather than later, yes all games die, they normally just don't do it within 2 weeks of launch when they are an online only game lol

[Zrehael]

Originally posted by Cypherous:

Originally posted by Zrehael:

I think you and I have very different ideas of what constitutes failure.

If they had re-released this game as a $20 game with microtransactions and the usual greedy fixings of modern day monetization and the game failed to support itself? I'd be right with you in calling it a failure. If they did the same but made it free instead, I'd still agree. But that wasn't what happened.

The game was marketed on a few simple points: Gigantic's coming back, it's following a buy-to-play model with no microtransactions, we're going to have peer-to-peer custom lobbies available and we're also going to be including this content that was cut from the original run of the game that never made it into the game before its shutdown. Why would a multiplayer game like this advertise an option for peer-to-peer connectivity and unreleased content? Because the whole point was to advertise this to the fans. That small, niche community that's kept on since 2018. It's not trying to compete against every other MOBA or hero shooter out there. It's just trying to return Gigantic to the people who enjoyed it.

At the end of the day, if they have to close the servers again (which, look, eventually all games will, unless you somehow think your favorite titles are going to survive the heat death of the universe), it's irrelevant. Development's done. The game's done. But unlike other games in this sphere, it's still going to be available for people to play as they want. Get some friends together, pop in for a game or two as you like. You don't need Arc Games to keep it afloat.

What part of that am I supposed to consider failure?

What part do i consider a failure? the entire thing, there is no scenario where they even really broke even on what it cost them to revive the game

You're right in that it was meant to appeal to the niche group of fans that existed, but they did it because they hoped it would actually make some money rather than them lost it

So yes i consider this a commercial failure, as would literally anyone looking at the game rationally

And the difference is that the servers will be closing sooner rather than later, yes all games die, they normally just don't do it within 2 weeks of launch when they are an online only game lol

The commercial failure happened in 2018. Motiga, the original developers are gone. The debt Gigantic racked up during its development was, almost assuredly, liquidated with the original company's assets or written off as a tax break. Possibly both. This revival's costs are only that of the skeleton crew of devs, what little server space was needed to host it, and the costs of what little advertising they did. Everything else was already there. There wasn't much to lose at all releasing it, if anything.

Moreover, it's hard for you to say you're looking at the game rationally when you're making so many assumptions about the finances on this with zero hard numbers of their operating costs vs their total volume of sales across all platforms. That's information that neither of us have and can only speculate on. Your view is certainly more cynical, but that doesn't make it more rational.

But I didn't ask if you considered the game a failure. I asked what part of this revival I, a fan of the original game, happy to have it return and know that the work has been put in that I will be able to play it regardless of official support, am supposed to consider a failure, when it did everything it stated it set out to do?

[Label07]

Originally posted by lemstryz:

They fumbled so hard with the server issues that I don't think this game is going to recover. This game needs more marketing and it needs to go free to play or else devs will eventually have no income to fund servers.

You nailed it. It needed to WORK out the gate. The first impression for this game was horrible and probably pushed many away, old and new players.

Marketing was basically NONE which obviously will not help.

A F2P option alongside the buy all characters option, would be smart. Believe the first game had something like that but it was too generous for F2P people.

[Tyler the inflator]

Originally posted by Silencedmage:

There are over 1000 players on steam right now, there are three more platforms with their own playerbases on top of that, and everyone is getting under 30 second queues.

And the server issues were fixed on Steam, Arc, and XBox within 48 hours, it's just Playstation that they can't seem to figure out.

If you're going to doompost, you could at least do so without spreading misinformation.

700peak, so yeah it is not doomposting. You just can't accept the truth

[Tyler the inflator]

Originally posted by Zrehael:

Originally posted by Cypherous:

See games don't need 400k players, they need revenue, this game has no recurring revenue and it costs money to operate and maintain

And once ranked rolls around you'll see the effects of such a small playerbase, the OG version had the same issue back in the day, i still have a database of the top 500 players from the OG game and the MMR difference spans about 2500 points between 1 and 500

And sure you can go back to your private servers, but nothing really changes in that regard as the game will still have failed for the second time because they didn't learn from their previous mistakes :)

I think you and I have very different ideas of what constitutes failure.

If they had re-released this game as a $20 game with microtransactions and the usual greedy fixings of modern day monetization and the game failed to support itself? I'd be right with you in calling it a failure. If they did the same but made it free instead, I'd still agree. But that wasn't what happened.

The game was marketed on a few simple points: Gigantic's coming back, it's following a buy-to-play model with no microtransactions, we're going to have peer-to-peer custom lobbies available and we're also going to be including this content that was cut from the original run of the game that never made it into the game before its shutdown. Why would a multiplayer game like this advertise an option for peer-to-peer connectivity and unreleased content? Because the whole point was to advertise this to the fans. That small, niche community that's kept on since 2018. It's not trying to compete against every other MOBA or hero shooter out there. It's just trying to return Gigantic to the people who enjoyed it.

At the end of the day, if they have to close the servers again (which, look, eventually all games will, unless you somehow think your favorite titles are going to survive the heat death of the universe), it's irrelevant. Development's done. The game's done. But unlike other games in this sphere, it's still going to be available for people to play as they want. Get some friends together, pop in for a game or two as you like. You don't need Arc Games to keep it afloat.

What part of that am I supposed to consider failure?

If a game loses the majority of its players in 1-2 weeks it is a failure, what else would it be?

[JamesTBG]

Originally posted by Maggilando:

Originally posted by Zrehael:

I think you and I have very different ideas of what constitutes failure.

If they had re-released this game as a $20 game with microtransactions and the usual greedy fixings of modern day monetization and the game failed to support itself? I'd be right with you in calling it a failure. If they did the same but made it free instead, I'd still agree. But that wasn't what happened.

The game was marketed on a few simple points: Gigantic's coming back, it's following a buy-to-play model with no microtransactions, we're going to have peer-to-peer custom lobbies available and we're also going to be including this content that was cut from the original run of the game that never made it into the game before its shutdown. Why would a multiplayer game like this advertise an option for peer-to-peer connectivity and unreleased content? Because the whole point was to advertise this to the fans. That small, niche community that's kept on since 2018. It's not trying to compete against every other MOBA or hero shooter out there. It's just trying to return Gigantic to the people who enjoyed it.

At the end of the day, if they have to close the servers again (which, look, eventually all games will, unless you somehow think your favorite titles are going to survive the heat death of the universe), it's irrelevant. Development's done. The game's done. But unlike other games in this sphere, it's still going to be available for people to play as they want. Get some friends together, pop in for a game or two as you like. You don't need Arc Games to keep it afloat.

What part of that am I supposed to consider failure?

If a game loses the majority of its players in 1-2 weeks it is a failure, what else would it be?

And still someone is not listening. Play Exoprimal same story. Is it dead now? No it is not. Its simply not played that anymore by the whiney pc master race. So I am out. There is no point in this discussion anymore just some tryhards who want to convince outer players of their weird opinion. Brave new world.