I miss the old Minotaur

[Nicodemous52]

I've been slowly playing the game, because I'm a busy bee that does many things.

But I got to the Minotaur, and I have to say you did my boy dirty. One of the things that really hooked me on the game was the old Minotaur teaser. I was curious and following the game before that, but that was what totally sold me. And then I see what I actually got. It's like that meme.
Mom, can we get a Minotaur?
We have a Minotaur at home...

The Minotaur at home... (a totally neutered bumbling oaf of a dweeb)

[tonyastark14121]

I googled the teaser (I think) you are talking about, and, while that looked cool, I like the game's direction as well. There are already two hostile 'how you dare challenge me' songs very close to where Asterion chapter is (namely Persephone's Challenging a Queen and Medusa's Look into Me), so if there was a third one it would feel extremely repetitive I think. Cast a Spell is not my favorite song, but it makes for a nice change of pace, so I can see why the developers changed this part.

[Nicodemous52]

Originally posted by tonyastark14121:

I googled the teaser (I think) you are talking about, and, while that looked cool, I like the game's direction as well. There are already two hostile 'how you dare challenge me' songs very close to where Asterion chapter is (namely Persephone's Challenging a Queen and Medusa's Look into Me), so if there was a third one it would feel extremely repetitive I think. Cast a Spell is not my favorite song, but it makes for a nice change of pace, so I can see why the developers changed this part.

That's not unfair, and I don't hate the game or anything. I have some issues, but are not really directly related to the game itself.

I'm just a little disappointed is all.

[stinkbug]

I agree with you, and adding on to what tony said, personally I don't think its the 'how dare you challenge me' that is what those songs are, I considered them as 'fight' songs instead. I didn't see persephone's as a fight song though even choosing the red path, there's no sense of urgency or danger in her song like there was for the second song tony mentioned (I have to say it like that because my spoiler tags don't work for some reason), and I would have liked another one like that where you're thinking Grace could realistically be murdered right here right now, and spent the whole game excited thinking it would end with a song like that because I craved another experience like the second song tony mentioned (again, spoiler tags won't for me lmao). So I really would have liked for the Minotaur to keep his original role especially, ESPECIALLY when comparing the quality increase between Chorus and Stray Gods. The original Minotaur fleshed out would have been so fun, and it would fit with the lore of the story since the Minotaur has a kinda similar existence to the singer of the second song tony mentioned, it would fit that he would also be trying to murder you. I think it was more a case of adapting the Minotaur to the parts of the story that were more important than it was about specifically changing him into what he is now. I think that because: even if it was a case of trying to not have 'how dare you challenge me' or 'fight' songs I don't think three would cross the line into repetitive if you count persephone's, and I personally wouldn't anyways. But the thing is, it would have made more sense in the story if the Minotaur kept his original role.

Everyone is aware that Hecatate is still caught off guard despite knowing the future since shes not allowed to react to the information she knows. It would make sense to have the reliquary at the center of the Minotaur's lair and have him be a guard rather than a janitor or whatever he does there. The way the reliquary stands now, it is completely vulnerable to anyone who even THINKS about sneaking in. If you walk in the front door and are honest with Hecatate she still has to let you through because you were planning on sneaking in and only didn't because she can see the future. Meaning that without knowing the future, which is knowledge she can't act on, you would have snuck past her. The only thing actually protecting the reliquary is fear of Hecatate which only extends to new Idol's who don't understand her. So anyone can just walk right in. I would have loved to have the Minotaur actually guarding the reliquary, there could be some great responsive dialogue when you go back as well.

I also have some ideas for how the song could play out

-Red path: You take him by force, and he later takes a knee and lets you pass saying he will pick his battles wisely and not risk fighting you again so hes alive to defend the reliquary from a future, hopefully weaker threat. A great, simple dialogue choice that adds to the weight of Grace's power.

-Blue path, which would be locked by clever trait: You realize that Calliope couldn't have been killed by the minotaur since she got into the reliquary, you tell him about how you're Calliope's succsessor after what happened in the reliquary, he knows from her that the cause is just and she was stopped by someone working against that. You tell him he is protecting the reliquary not by stopping you but by letting you through. I can't think of a good following dialogue when you return though.

-Green path: They retain the hopeless romantic aspect of the current Minotaur and you can try to win him over. At first I didn't like this idea much but there is actually some interesting ways this could be handled. The following green dialogue can revolve around actually winning him over / genuinely complimenting him. The red dialogue can revolve around saying things like, but if you don't let me through I can never see you the same way again. The blue dialogue you play into the fact that if you don't get into the reliquary you will be executed. This can lead to a following romance option, with an extra heartbreak option than normal if you chose the red dialogue after going down the green path, where you can break it to him that you were using him and get to walk right past because hes in tears. Adds to the ":Roleplaying Musical" part of the game.


I did NOT expect to write this much about the Minotaur or even know about his changes until now. Really want to hear what other people think about this because now that I've spitballed how it could work, him guarding the reliquary and how much more sense that would make, all the fun dialogue, I really think this was a missed opportunity.

edit: punctuation

[tonyastark14121]

Originally posted by humphrey:

I think that because: even if it was a case of trying to not have 'how dare you challenge me' or 'fight' songs I don't think three would cross the line into repetitive if you count persephone's, and I personally wouldn't anyways. But the thing is, it would have made more sense in the story if the Minotaur kept his original role.

Yeah, I see your point. It's not that I think three is some kind of magic number for fight songs, it's just that they are all so close to each other. Also, I agree that the way you put it the Minotaur being more like Medusa does make sense, but from a efficient storytelling point of view, why would we want two characters having essentially the same arc? It's more interesting to explore two different approaches to the whole being a monster / treated as a monster thing I think.

It is honestly impressive how much you thought about it though! Again, I never knew the older version of the Minotaur so I can't really miss it, and I do like the version we ended up with, but it's interesting to see what hypotheticals people have.