Ruin levels was already a bad (imo) concept.

[Snowfunk]

Ruin levels don't really add much, just annoying modifiers.
And once you've got your upgrades juiced up, there is really no added difficulty.

We already beat every map, at 10, 15 and 20 minute stages, at 0-5 Ruin levels (and not only once, because you kept unlocking challenges for the same stage/ruin you just played).

And now your new content is, do a 30 min run at 0-5 Ruin on every map?

I'm sorry, but this is not GOOD CONTENT.

I like your game, it's visually very pleasing, the slower pace is a nice change, and combat/weapons feels good (Altough weapon balance is bad, and 75% of trinkets are "never pick" garbage).

You need to come up with better new content, repeating what I've already played so many times is no fun, it's just a slog.

[Desmond]

game is 5 dollars and it gets uppdated around every week... like damn chill its a game not magic, it takes time to do stuff.

Also funny how you dont give any constructive critisim on how to make the game better just "MAKE GAME BETTER, NOT GOOD"

[WaaghMan]

Hi!

Ruin levels was a way to add more content once you've completed the stages (which takes a good number of hours). It's supposed to be endgame content and a way to offer additional challenge to players that already got a good number of upgrades and breezed through the standard stages with barely any effort.

Nothing more, nothing less than that.

Endless stages was, after achievements, the most requested feature.

As for equipment balance, please give specific examples of the equipment you feel are "never pick" garbage. If you have a convincing argument we may change them to make them more interesting.

We're currently working on the 5th and final environment, offering the usual amount of stages and unlocks, as well as new types of enemies, traps and ruin modifiers. I won't lie, it's nothing groundbreaking and it's "just" another extension of content, with more challenges to do, more things to unlock, and more equipment variety. But that's what this game is about: Playing around with a manageable but not extremely hard difficulty, unlocking things at a steady rate and trying to meet specific challenge requirements.

We feel the game is in a good spot and aside from improving a bit some of the game mechanics (specially the "Special Bosses" one), we don't think there's a need to introduce new features that may make the game more complex than intended.

As always, we're open to suggestions on specific ideas to improve the game, so if you have any, feel free to share them.

[Snowfunk]

WaaghMan a écrit :

Hi! Endless stages was, after achievements, the most requested feature.

As for equipment balance, please give specific examples of the equipment you feel are "never pick" garbage. If you have a convincing argument we may change them to make them more interesting.

The Good
Elven Quiver
Forbidden Sword
Gloves of Harmony
Leather Bracer
Magnifiier
Spy Glass
Sacred Effigy
Supply Crate
Banner of Ruin

Solid Utility
Enchanted Harp
Travel Boots

Decent
Magic Needle
Obsidian Crown
Raven's Wing
Wristband of Grudge
Heavy Greaves (Effect should really liinger for a second or two)

Useful for Gold farming, otherwise not desireable
Book of Omens
Parchment of the Scholar
Coin Purse

Useless Garbage
Basilisk Claw (detrimental)
Crimson Flask
Devilish Eye
Dragon Heart
Emerald Ring
Exotic Spice
Explosive Flask
Fire Mirror
Frozen Cross
Hidden Stash
Hourglass
Ice Mirror
Ice Tear
Marine Necklace
Medicinal Herbs
Onyx Coin
Rabbit's Foot
Seal of Purity
Shackles Silver Bullets
Soul Container Spark Belt
Viking Helm
Voodoo Doll

Armor of Thorns (Yes there is a thorns build, several heroes seem to cater to it, but why? You have 6 weapons, evolve them and nothing except for immortal enemies should ever touch you)

Elixir of Health
Panacea
Buckler
(Sure, you can tank it up, but why? The only reason would be if you want to full Afk tank immortal enemies, whiich I don't know if it's even possible)


You can beat any Stage, any Ruin with pretty much any configuration, with enough upgrades. But there's really no point in venturing outside the good/utility pool, it will support the best weapons (Ancestal Razor, Cupid's Arrow, War Pickaxe) and leave plenty of options for the remaining slots.

And Endless mode is a great addition, my complaint was aimed at the addition of achievements for 18 diifferent 30+ minute runs.

[Acropoli 創案者]

Snowfunk a écrit :

WaaghMan a écrit :

Hi! Endless stages was, after achievements, the most requested feature.

As for equipment balance, please give specific examples of the equipment you feel are "never pick" garbage. If you have a convincing argument we may change them to make them more interesting.

The Good
Elven Quiver
Forbidden Sword
Gloves of Harmony
Leather Bracer
Magnifiier
Spy Glass
Sacred Effigy
Supply Crate
Banner of Ruin

Solid Utility
Enchanted Harp
Travel Boots

Decent
Magic Needle
Obsidian Crown
Raven's Wing
Wristband of Grudge
Heavy Greaves (Effect should really liinger for a second or two)

Useful for Gold farming, otherwise not desireable
Book of Omens
Parchment of the Scholar
Coin Purse

Useless Garbage
Basilisk Claw (detrimental)
Crimson Flask
Devilish Eye
Dragon Heart
Emerald Ring
Exotic Spice
Explosive Flask
Fire Mirror
Frozen Cross
Hidden Stash
Hourglass
Ice Mirror
Ice Tear
Marine Necklace
Medicinal Herbs
Onyx Coin
Rabbit's Foot
Seal of Purity
Shackles Silver Bullets
Soul Container Spark Belt
Viking Helm
Voodoo Doll

Armor of Thorns (Yes there is a thorns build, several heroes seem to cater to it, but why? You have 6 weapons, evolve them and nothing except for immortal enemies should ever touch you)

Elixir of Health
Panacea
Buckler
(Sure, you can tank it up, but why? The only reason would be if you want to full Afk tank immortal enemies, whiich I don't know if it's even possible)


You can beat any Stage, any Ruin with pretty much any configuration, with enough upgrades. But there's really no point in venturing outside the good/utility pool, it will support the best weapons (Ancestal Razor, Cupid's Arrow, War Pickaxe) and leave plenty of options for the remaining slots.

And Endless mode is a great addition, my complaint was aimed at the addition of achievements for 18 diifferent 30+ minute runs.

I've just completed all achievements, and I agree the 30 minute runs were super boring. I zoned out and contemplated life while I completed them.

[Vimpster]

Snowfunk a écrit :

And Endless mode is a great addition, my complaint was aimed at the addition of achievements for 18 diifferent 30+ minute runs.

I assume you mean challenges? There is only a single achievement for doing endless once for each of the 4 maps. And it would seem rather bizarre to not include every endless ruin with a corresponding challenge. But if you are capable of it you can go straight to doing the highest ruin level and you get the challenge completion for all the ruin levels below it including the non-ruin level, all from a single run.

Here is an example, I did ruin 2 and got the challenge for ruin 1 and non ruin all at the same time.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2944747682

[WaaghMan]

• Basilisk Claw (detrimental): It's true that the speed at which it rotates may be a bit slow, but saying it's detrimental because of the petrification is definitely exaggerating things.
  
• Crimson Flask: I agree the knockback strength may not be strong enough with some enemies.
  
• Devilish Eye: Why do you treat this one as garbage and not Wristband of Grudge ? They're mostly the same.
  
• Dragon Heart: This is one of the top 3 picked trinkets in the whole game. Are you sure you wanted to put it on this section?
  
• Emerald Ring: Another contender for top picked trinkets. Depends on the character, but faster skill usage can be a life saver.
  
• Exotic Spice: Could be. A bit hard to measure, as food isn't a regular resource.
  
• Explosive Flask: Could be. Depends on the run length mostly.
  
• Fire Mirror: Same as Explosive Flask.
  
• Frozen Cross: Actually very powerful on Duration based builds.
  
• Hidden Stash: To be honest I haven't played enough with this one unlocked, so I can't really tell.
  
• Hourglass: Really powerful on duration based builds.
  
• Ice Mirror: At full level we're talking about freezing all enemies for 10 seconds every 20. Definitely NOT garbage tier.
  
• Ice Tear: Haven't played enough with this one. I don't think it will be that bad, but can't tell.
  
• Marine Necklace: Same.
  
• Medicinal Herbs: Another Skill Cooldown based trinket. Helpful on characters with powerful (and with long cooldown) skills.
  
• Onyx Coin: Really? Onyx Coin is definitely a strong trinket, and we're actually thinking of changing a bit the way it works to solve some issues with it being too powerful.
  
• Rabbit's Foot: It's a bit hard to determine when Luck is actually doing something, so it's understandable you qualify this as a bad trinket.
  
• Seal of Purity: More damage to bosses? So I can facetank bosses and elites and come unscathed after killing them? Yes please.
  
• Shackles: Another one of those hard to notice, but actually effective trinkets.
  
• Silver Bullets: I agree with this one. Projectile speed is rarely a useful upgrade (although it works really well for a few weapons such as Volcanic Orbs Ancestral Razor), and Knockback can be a bit inconsistent. All in all, not powerful enough to justify picking it up.
  
• Soul Container: I'm personally not a fan of extra lives either. I had some ideas in mind to improve it, but I'll need to gather some statistics on it before changing the way it works.
  
• Spark Belt: Haven't played enough with it yet. Looks good, however, like Ice Mirror but more frequent and dealing some damage.
  
• Viking Helm: This one has always been problematic. It has a good damage boost, but it's hard to stay under the health threshold because of regeneration and food. Probably needs to be looked into.
  
• Voodoo Doll: We'll check it out. Killing random enemies can be almost useless when dealing with large mobs, but it works great when surrounded by big chonky enemies, and you may get lucky and kill a turret or an enemy spawner.
  
• Armor of Thorns: As you say, there are builds that can be used with this one.
  
• Elixir of Health, Panacea, Buckler: Could be. They don't increase your damage, but they offer some defense that can be useful when dealing with immune enemies, for instance.

So, we'll take a look at:
* Basilisk Claw (probably increase area or rate a bit)
* Crimson Flask (revise knockback effect)
* Devilish Eye (maybe increase Curse effect duration a bit)
* Silver Bullets (probably add some additional effect)
For the rest we'll need to look into statistics before acting, as I don't feel they're as bad as you say.

[Snowfunk]

Vimpster a écrit :

I assume you mean challenges? There is only a single achievement for doing endless once for each of the 4 maps. And it would seem rather bizarre to not include every endless ruin with a corresponding challenge. But if you are capable of it you can go straight to doing the highest ruin level and you get the challenge completion for all the ruin levels below it including the non-ruin level, all from a single run.

Here is an example, I did ruin 2 and got the challenge for ruin 1 and non ruin all at the same time.

Yes, I meant challenges. I realize there is a distinction, but not one I make personally, I'm just here to complete the upgrades/unlocks and challenges.

I also cleared a Map on Endless Ruin 5 and it did unlock every challenge, just like you suggested.
I wholly applaud this design decision, it was something widely requested for the regular stages/ruin levels.

[Sharlatan]

Just skimming this thread, when the poster suggested elven quiver was a good item, I laughed and realised we could ignore all the rest they said!

[timmythemic22]

Snowfunk a écrit :

WaaghMan a écrit :

Hi! Endless stages was, after achievements, the most requested feature.

As for equipment balance, please give specific examples of the equipment you feel are "never pick" garbage. If you have a convincing argument we may change them to make them more interesting.

The Good
Elven Quiver
Forbidden Sword
Gloves of Harmony
Leather Bracer
Magnifiier
Spy Glass
Sacred Effigy
Supply Crate
Banner of Ruin

Solid Utility
Enchanted Harp
Travel Boots

Decent
Magic Needle
Obsidian Crown
Raven's Wing
Wristband of Grudge
Heavy Greaves (Effect should really liinger for a second or two)

Useful for Gold farming, otherwise not desireable
Book of Omens
Parchment of the Scholar
Coin Purse

Useless Garbage
Basilisk Claw (detrimental)
Crimson Flask
Devilish Eye
Dragon Heart
Emerald Ring
Exotic Spice
Explosive Flask
Fire Mirror
Frozen Cross
Hidden Stash
Hourglass
Ice Mirror
Ice Tear
Marine Necklace
Medicinal Herbs
Onyx Coin
Rabbit's Foot
Seal of Purity
Shackles Silver Bullets
Soul Container Spark Belt
Viking Helm
Voodoo Doll

Armor of Thorns (Yes there is a thorns build, several heroes seem to cater to it, but why? You have 6 weapons, evolve them and nothing except for immortal enemies should ever touch you)

Elixir of Health
Panacea
Buckler
(Sure, you can tank it up, but why? The only reason would be if you want to full Afk tank immortal enemies, whiich I don't know if it's even possible)


You can beat any Stage, any Ruin with pretty much any configuration, with enough upgrades. But there's really no point in venturing outside the good/utility pool, it will support the best weapons (Ancestal Razor, Cupid's Arrow, War Pickaxe) and leave plenty of options for the remaining slots.

And Endless mode is a great addition, my complaint was aimed at the addition of achievements for 18 diifferent 30+ minute runs.

Wow. You're wrong, but you spent a lot of time on this. Good job?

[Jamma003]

Snowfunk a écrit :

The Good
Elven Quiver
Forbidden Sword

snip

Panacea
Buckler
(Sure, you can tank it up, but why? The only reason would be if you want to full Afk tank immortal enemies, whiich I don't know if it's even possible)

Hard disagree on this list. Ill list some counter-arguments for each thing I think is misplaced here.

• Enchanted Harp being decent but Frozen Cross being bad makes no sense to me, the main reason to use pickup range items is for AFK builds, and the Duration bonus from Frozen Cross plays very nicely with good weapons for that build like Volcanic Orbs, Ancestral Razor, Whirlwind Pickaxe, etc. The speed debuff has no effect on these builds because you arent planning to walk often.
  
• Travel Boots being decent is only true early game, late game you have enough permanent movement buffs from the upgrades menu and character choice that they dont make much difference.
  
• Wristband of Grudge is the single most OP trinket in the game. Its more of a guaranteed pick than any other OP item anyone could mention, for me. +140% damage and +30% speed and all you have to do is walk into an enemy to proc it? Its borderline broken, it stacks incredibly well with thorns, AFK, and close range builds that have you running at enemies all the time.
  
• Heavy Greaves, again, one of the most powerful items for lazy builds. Almost caps out your fire rate immediately, with an addtional charm or Leather Bracer you can max it out and lag the game out with how many things are happening.
  
• Parchment Of The Scholar, a must-pick for the level 1 stages that dont last long enough to max out all 12 item slots. Not very useful later on though.
  
• Crimson Flask, situational, but good for AFK builds.
  
• Dragon Heart, +50% damage is bad? What?
  
• Hourglass, as mentioned above, Duration builds can be some of the strongest in the game with the right item selection. All of the most powerful weapons scale brilliantly with Duration.
  
• Silver Bullets, its got a nice niche with something like Homemade Explosives to keep enemies away from you, and speed up weapons like Whirlwind Pickaxe to kill them before they reach that close range. Its a weaker pick but not a bad one.
  
• Seal Of Purity and Viking Helm, again, very good for any playstyle that takes damage often. While I havent played them yet, I just saw Traxx was added recently and seems to play heavily around low health, so these items would be good for him.
  
• Armor Of Thorns, you answered your own point there, but Selina + Armor + Grudge + Buckler is my most favorite playstyle in the game, definitely not garbage.

I think its easy to confuse "useless garbage" and "not good for the way I play". Most items in the game fit niches or alternative playstyles that are fun in their own right. As youve mentioned, you can beat the game picking any random junk if you have levelled up enough, but thats exactly why niche items work, you can experiment and see how the game plays out when trying completely different playstyles.

There are some genuine stinkers, but even I would say some items are bad when other people get lots of value out of them. For example, Emerald Ring feels completely useless for me, someone who almost exclusively uses abilities on bosses and has it recharge in plenty of time before the next boss. The items I think are genuinely bad (all personal opinion) right now are probably:

• Basilisk Claw, doing less damage to an enemy thats in close range and needs to die is just bad
  
• Rabbits Foot, as mentioned, luck is a helpful stat but doesnt feel satisfying, its barely noticed even on max luck builds despite being statistically good
  
• Soul Container, I would honestly just prefer extra lives didnt exist, I havent bought them in the shop, and I dont use this trinket, would feel like cheating to revive in a "roguelike". Item is good, but doesnt feel good
  
• Gloves Of Harmony, good concept but limits you to taking sun and moon trinkets, which typically arent as good as others, so this is a huge risk to pick up for barely any payoff, and its assuming you even find the trinkets you want (Ive had games where I took this and only got one other trinket to match). This item could be really great though, if the effect was increased.
  
• Voodoo Doll, I mean, I have never noticed this effect actually kill anything that mattered
  
• Medicinal Herbs and Exotic Spice, relying on food just doesnt work that well, but again, I think these items would suddenly become very good if a trinket existed that spawned guaranteed food under certain circumstances. When I was first unlocking them, I was expecting to find such a trinket, but never did :(

I have spent way too long writing this when I could have been getting the 30 minute achievements...

Disclaimer: Im missing 2 trinkets that were added in the endless modes, if one of them spawns food then ignore my comments about the food based items

Edit: Im going to add Shackles to the bad list, as I suspect it has an unintended XP debuff. When enemies are moving slower, they reach you slower, you kill them slower, and I feel like this means less enemies spawn... could be completely wrong but I do notice something like this in-game.

[Cryptic]

I actually like the mirrors that cause enemies to take elemental damage. They are helpful honestly. Extremely.

Also, calling the dragon heart garbage? Lmao. You lose all credibility buddy. How is extra damage, especially when the thing is maxed, garbage?

[Snowfunk]

Cryptic a écrit :

I actually like the mirrors that cause enemies to take elemental damage. They are helpful honestly. Extremely.

Also, calling the dragon heart garbage? Lmao. You lose all credibility buddy. How is extra damage, especially when the thing is maxed, garbage?

There's already a bunch of Trinkets who provide a 100%+ damage, as oposed to a mere 50%.

But that's besides the point. Dragon Heart is a fire trinket.
There already Spyglass and Supply Crate which both provide crazy bonuses.

And there is no good weapon which requires more than one Fire trinket. Even if there was, you'd take Spyglass and Supply Crate first anyways.

There's just no situation where you would ever pick Dragonheart.

Get some upgrades, unlock the good trinkets and get a clue.