Why am I punished for using poison or ice in this game?

[Ademro]

I can use scythe or other physical abiliites on any boss. But sometimes you get a fun DOT build, or poison/ice whatever, and you get bosses, *bosses* , that are immune?? that doesnt make sense. Its not like the poison is even that strong to begin with. Make enemies immune to the slow or something, not the damage.

[Blarg1480]

I just played with ice nova, the "immune" message from the boss seems to just be for the freeze effect, the dot damage still appears to be applied.

[Ademro]

Originalmente postado por Blarg1480:

I just played with ice nova, the "immune" message from the boss seems to just be for the freeze effect, the dot damage still appears to be applied.

I had a very strong poison build at one point though, and it was unfortunately doing zero damage to it.

[Blarg1480]

Sorry, I have not played much with poison yet. Not sure if anyone else has.

[-=GUARDIAN=-]

these builds are weak at the begining, but once lvl up are strong, also any build will not stand by it self since u need both single high dmg, crowned controls, and large group dmg spells to win any run.

[Ademro]

Originalmente postado por -=GUARDIAN=-:

these builds are weak at the begining, but once lvl up are strong, also any build will not stand by it self since u need both single high dmg, crowned controls, and large group dmg spells to win any run.

I think even if it was a damage reduction, that would be fine. But it doesn't make sense for their to be specific kinds of damage that enemies are completely immune to. It's not like Final Fantasy where you can just choose another spell. If I decide to go all out on a build, and the boss ends up being immune to it, it doesn't make sense for this kind of game with small builds.

[Blarg1480]

I did just finish a run with Sickle testing the Fart Cloud and Ice nova. Can confirm the Black Hammer boss is immune to both her farts and ice cold heart. Mind you this was in hard mode which made the fight last pretty long, but he did seems to activate an enrage type mechanic as multiple mini bosses spawned part way through the fight.

[Beardynoise]

Just did the "Plague Master" challenge with Shakpana and...the final boss is immune to poison? For a challenge where you have to stack tons o' poison damage? OUCH.

[Yippo the Clown]

I agree that poison immune bosses is rather restrictive. I've been working my way through the challenges and it's definitely feeling like you need to run whatever the challenge requirements are, plus one of the good boss-killing skills (Final Slash, Shuriken, Bone Toss) to be able to clear reasonably.

[MrSmiley]

Yea I get bosses being immune to the slow, but it doing 0 damage to them seems like a weird choice

[wizard_6]

Indeed bosses being immune to poison seems like a very unfun thing to do.
But also what baffles me is that Ice Ring upgrade that has a chance to spawn a new Ice Ring on killing frozen foes turns out not to inherit any upgrades, at least not size wise. I had nice build with a lot of area so Ice Ring could cover a good chunk of the screen. Imagine my dissapoitment when the rings spawne from mobs were so tiny that I was barely able to notice them, like slightly bigger than smallest mob there is.

[PEET]

The logic behind Ice and Poison immunity is that they are super strong crowd control for standard enemies. Maxing either Ice Ring or Poison cloud is incredibly useful for the overall run because they can make you nearly untouchable. To balance this they don't affect certain minibosses and most end bosses meaning you need to balance the build with a strong boss killler ability.

[Ademro]

Originalmente postado por PEET:

The logic behind Ice and Poison immunity is that they are super strong crowd control for standard enemies. Maxing either Ice Ring or Poison cloud is incredibly useful for the overall run because they can make you nearly untouchable. To balance this they don't affect certain minibosses and most end bosses meaning you need to balance the build with a strong boss killler ability. :engineercat:

While true, I find it incredibly easy to just build pure physical damage and annihilate both enemies and bosses. So in a way, it just makes poison and ice not necessary. It would be nice to build what I like in a game that I spend many hours unlocking stuff on. Perhaps a poison and ice immunity minus skill node on the tree or something.

[cookies for everyone!]

Agree with Ademro, outside of Challenges, when you are free to use whatever you want, i never pick up any crowd-control abilities, it is a waste since it is not needed, the only deliberate cc i pick is Cold Mine for the magic mine ability but i don't level it after i unlock it since it's unnecessary, even on Brutal difficulty.

Might be something i would consider for a Hardcore save, but i don't see myself starting a hardcore save since im happy with having done 100% normal difficulty.

[Mojito]

Originalmente postado por cookies for everyone!:

Agree with Ademro, outside of Challenges, when you are free to use whatever you want, i never pick up any crowd-control abilities, it is a waste since it is not needed, the only deliberate cc i pick is Cold Mine for the magic mine ability but i don't level it after i unlock it since it's unnecessary, even on Brutal difficulty.

Might be something i would consider for a Hardcore save, but i don't see myself starting a hardcore save since im happy with having done 100% normal difficulty.

CC is one of those things that it really depends on individual skill level. Some players will not need CC, but others REALLY need it. And everyone in hardcore needs it otherwise, it will never be completed.

[Jaeus]

Short Answer: DOT weapons are bad.
Long Answer: DOT weapons are VERY bad.

Originalmente postado por PEET:

The logic behind Ice and Poison immunity is that they are super strong crowd control for standard enemies. Maxing either Ice Ring or Poison cloud is incredibly useful for the overall run because they can make you nearly untouchable. To balance this they don't affect certain minibosses and most end bosses meaning you need to balance the build with a strong boss killler ability. :engineercat:

The logic flies out the window when strong weapons like Bone and Shuriken are able to very quickly inflict the strongest CC: Death.
Plus, as someone with enough hours in this game since very early access, no, Ice Ring and Poison Cloud are terrible. There is no character and no map and no circumstance where I would ever want them over: Bone, Shuriken, Tornado, Spears, Arrow, Grand Hex, and most importantly Shock Bolt.

It's fine that things aren't balanced and some things are worse and thus more challenging than others. But this is a game where if enemies are CCed, then enemies are not dead, and you have the bigger problem of being already behind, and possibly never catching up.
This is not a game where you're going to kite slowed frozen enemies while DOTs kill them, this game was simply never designed that way. That's just not how this kind of genre goes.

I guess the better question to ask is: If CC only works on the weak enemies easily killed by damage, what is the point of CC existing in this game at all? Why would I ever take Ice Ring or Poison Cloud instead of Shock Bolt and Tornado?
I don't ask that as a complaint, I ask that as being reflective of the genre.
The best CC is 0 HP. >:D

Again, I <3 your game, and you guys did a great job. <3