Someone sell me on vines and orbiting fire

[100% Wolf Urine]

They seem like weak choices not worth taking.

Vines are random and almost never spawn where I want them too, don't last long enough to lure enemies into, and never get big enough to change that. I leveled their area up to 17 and they still were barely catching anyone. I see a lot of people swearing by them, but every other damage/CC hybrid ability has worked better.

Orbiting fire, because damage over time is always inferior to immediate damage. What really sinks it though is the nature of its cooldown reduction. Every other ability focuses on subtraction for CDR, making each level of flat reduction exponentially more powerful. Orbiting fire's CDR is its orbiting speed, which focuses on addition, which makes each level of flat addition give diminishing returns. It's a double whammy weakness and every other close range option is superior.

[LotusBlade]

It is natural for first abilities to be weaker than newly developed/added ones. It would be weird if starter hero with starter skills is just as strong as unlockable heroes / skills.

[MrSmiley]

Orbiting Fire has two of the best upgrades of any weapon. One is a dragon that is bigger and also shoots projectiles quickly at nearby enemies/ The other adds two additional fireballs/dragons that stacks that dot extremely quickly, especially with orbit speed. With investment, it absolutely melts crowds. I get a couple in radius to push it out further, I do not like it being so close to me. Early in the game, it was very weak for me, it wasnt until its meta upgrades that I liked it. I really like it on the speed girl that orbits it faster, or the heavy knight who makes it bigger. Its one of my big push for new levels spells

Vines I sometimes take too, depends on the character though. Mainly good on the character that grows their size every 10 levels, as well as the tree upgrade that improve its area levels. I have gotten the vines to be VERY big, and their dot hits pretty hard. In large crowds enemies it clears a walkway for me. I don't have its second meta upgrade, but the bomb pods really help it put out damage into the crowds too. I usually only use this on the one character, or the dot guy, really reduces pressure in the giant mobbing phases some maps have.

now I need someone to sell me on poison cloud...

[McGruff]

What difficulty and how much of the web have you completed? That has a big factor as different skills are more or less usefully depending on progress.

I pretty much take vines all the time. Often as my first. With no levels they are great even until to end game to slowing the hoards in brutal. Remember they target the closest enemy so with low mobs and bosses it is mostly predictable and if you miss you can lure them over to get them to 'stick.' Putting points in I'll usually go for crowed control or damage. With as many pods and spitters as you can get they'll wipe screens.

[100% Wolf Urine]

Originally posted by McGruff:

. Remember they target the closest enemy so with low mobs and bosses it is mostly predictable and if you miss you can lure them over to get them to 'stick.

They do? They always seems to appear in some far corner.

[PEET]

Originally posted by FABIO:

They seem like weak choices not worth taking.

Vines are random and almost never spawn where I want them too, don't last long enough to lure enemies into, and never get big enough to change that. I leveled their area up to 17 and they still were barely catching anyone. I see a lot of people swearing by them, but every other damage/CC hybrid ability has worked better.

Orbiting fire, because damage over time is always inferior to immediate damage. What really sinks it though is the nature of its cooldown reduction. Every other ability focuses on subtraction for CDR, making each level of flat reduction exponentially more powerful. Orbiting fire's CDR is its orbiting speed, which focuses on addition, which makes each level of flat addition give diminishing returns. It's a double whammy weakness and every other close range option is superior.

Vines target the nearest enemy and draw a line from the player outward. In large crowds, it can be unreliable to aim, but then it is hitting and slowing so many enemies that is it can be super effective at making an escape path. Building size is most effective for the CC.

If you are purely focused on the damage that abilities deal, then Orbital Fire will seem weak. Where it is the strongest is it is the only ability that has 100% up time from the start. It never turns off so it has no need for cooldown reduction. It can be easily and reliably be manipulated to protect the player from weaker enemies at all times. It has to have lower damage output to balance its strengths.

Poison Cloud is the most reliable CC in the game. With a few points in CDR its almost always on the player reducing the speed of every enemy that gets close to you by 65%. When it has a bunch of points in size, it gives any damage dealing ability a lot of extra time to destroy everything near you. I recognize that is it still slightly under powered so it will be getting some adjustments and damage buffs in the next patch.

Thanks for all the continued feedback! :)

[Handsy]

Vines are great, they create a path for you to walk on pretty quickly with just a few upgrades in a run. Then when you unlock the vine bomb. its game over. Orbital fire is really weak though, I supposed I have to get its next weapon upgrade on the tree to make it worthwhile