How's the input lag?

[>-FISH-D]

Is it as ♥♥♥♥♥♥ as the Saturn versions of Guardian Force and Cotton on Steam?

[1regretbeetle]

I would also like to know. Anyone want to pull out their modded controllers?

[Odjn Ryu]

Playing on an Xbox Series X controller connected via bluetooth and I didn't have any issues with input lag.

[Daikatan]

Originally posted by -Fish-:

Is it as ♥♥♥♥♥♥ as the Saturn versions of Guardian Force and Cotton on Steam?

I thought they have problems on Switch, but are better here, no?

[>-FISH-D]

Originally posted by Daikatan:

Originally posted by -Fish-:

Is it as ♥♥♥♥♥♥ as the Saturn versions of Guardian Force and Cotton on Steam?

I thought they have problems on Switch, but are better here, no?

Input lag is around 7 frames here after the dev "patch". Definitely worse on Switch though were it's still around 9 frames. Complete and utter garbage in both cases.

[Cobra]

Originally posted by -Fish-:

Originally posted by Daikatan:

I thought they have problems on Switch, but are better here, no?

Input lag is around 7 frames here after the dev "patch". Definitely worse on Switch though were it's still around 9 frames. Complete and utter garbage in both cases.

turn off v-sync, takes it down to 3-4 frames

edit: i see now you were talking about guardian force/cotton. my comment was in reference to this game

[Bavanity]

Originally posted by -Fish-:

Originally posted by Daikatan:

I thought they have problems on Switch, but are better here, no?

Input lag is around 7 frames here after the dev "patch". Definitely worse on Switch though were it's still around 9 frames. Complete and utter garbage in both cases.

In Retroarch with Final Burn Neo and 1 frame look ahead enabled, g-sync options enabled in RA and Nvidia CPL, I have less than 1 frame of lag. Tested by letting go of all controls till character is still, pressing P to paus RA, then holding down jump button, then pressing K which advances frame by frame. The character is already leaving the ground on my very first press of K, hence less than 1 frame lag.

I want to support games like this but when the experience I am already having is so much better, why would I? I do own the Saturn Japanese import version which I have had since it came out so I have no regrets emulating the arcade game.

I mean they could offer a mode of "less lag" using the standard emulator look ahead method, which does require a powerful processor, true, but it's like any other setting in any game, you need the right computer to run it. So at least those of us with powerful enough hardware could have an ultra low latency version.

Options. Options are good!

Can you change controller binding? That would be an absolute must for me and I don't want to spend $21 AUD to find out.
In RA with arcade games and lots of older console games, I assign fire to both Right shoulder and X and enable autofire on the right shoulder option and use what I feel like at the time. That's especially useful for games like R -type where you can have autofire depressed all the time then just hold down X to override that and have the charge weapon when needed, Best of all worlds.

All I want to see is PAID emulators doing at least as well as freeware. Is that too much to ask? Not better, but just as good. I think that's a reasonable request. I will not even try this on my switch, but regardless of all the issues I am reading about and my very strong reluctance, I am still somehow tempted to try it on steam. If I do 'will report back with findings.

[BloodHawk]

Originally posted by Bavanity:

Originally posted by -Fish-:

Input lag is around 7 frames here after the dev "patch". Definitely worse on Switch though were it's still around 9 frames. Complete and utter garbage in both cases.

In Retroarch with Final Burn Neo and 1 frame look ahead enabled, g-sync options enabled in RA and Nvidia CPL, I have less than 1 frame of lag. Tested by letting go of all controls till character is still, pressing P to paus RA, then holding down jump button, then pressing K which advances frame by frame. The character is already leaving the ground on my very first press of K, hence less than 1 frame lag.

I want to support games like this but when the experience I am already having is so much better, why would I? I do own the Saturn Japanese import version which I have had since it came out so I have no regrets emulating the arcade game.

I mean they could offer a mode of "less lag" using the standard emulator look ahead method, which does require a powerful processor, true, but it's like any other setting in any game, you need the right computer to run it. So at least those of us with powerful enough hardware could have an ultra low latency version.

Options. Options are good!

Can you change controller binding? That would be an absolute must for me and I don't want to spend $21 AUD to find out.
In RA with arcade games and lots of older console games, I assign fire to both Right shoulder and X and enable autofire on the right shoulder option and use what I feel like at the time. That's especially useful for games like R -type where you can have autofire depressed all the time then just hold down X to override that and have the charge weapon when needed, Best of all worlds.

All I want to see is PAID emulators doing at least as well as freeware. Is that too much to ask? Not better, but just as good. I think that's a reasonable request. I will not even try this on my switch, but regardless of all the issues I am reading about and my very strong reluctance, I am still somehow tempted to try it on steam. If I do 'will report back with findings.

I 100% agree more options are better and that commercial emulation (especially higher priced) should be better considering some of the options out there available for free. However, in your Retroarch example there are a couple notes to consider:

A) The method you are using to measure lag by pausing and then going frame-by-frame is only measuring the perceived lag of the emulation process itself and doesn't include the delay from your system handling the inputs from your controller/keyboard and the time it takes for your monitor or TV to process it as well. Therefore, comparing those measurements versus ones that are obtained online through video of actual real time gameplay is not really "apples-to-apples".

B) You mention the arcade version of EAR, for which the FBNeo core can utilize run ahead very efficiently, but this version on Steam is based on the Saturn port where its emulation isn't as far along as most other systems. For example, I have yet to hear about anyone who could pull off less than 5 frames of lag emulating Radiant Silvergun even on a CRT and still maintain constant 60fps due to the processing demand.

I know you probably already know all of that, but I didn't want someone else to come along and see this and develop an expectation of Saturn emulation with less than 1 frame of input lag.

Overall, the input lag does feel very playable with this port. It's not anywhere near as good as arcade emulation with run-ahead so if you are used to that you will notice a difference, but based off feel I am confident that it's not the 8+ frames of the other S-tribute titles. If you are primarily looking for the best input lag though and don't put too much weight into the additional options then it may be best to stick with what you have now.

For the controls, they are rebindable in game and through Steam's Controller Config (which the game utilizes by default, however for some reason it pulls the WASD keyboard profile at first and you have to change it). I don't remember if it has autofire settings in-game, but obviously you can adjust the controller profile in Steam to whatever auto rate you want.

[Bavanity]

Hi thanks. I don't use Steam controller config and to this day I don't understand it and have it disabled, and rely on a game's native x input support. All Steam CC every did for me was create issues, especially with games that use analog triggers.

I understand what you mean regarding perceived latency as what I am seeing is still how I perceive it. G-Sync and a very very low screen response time do make a difference though, and my screen has a real (measured) mid 3ms response time which is very good especially combined with g-sync.

Mednafen is pretty accurate with Saturn and I can easily use a 2 run ahead without performance issues, so I can only imagine what people with beasts like a 13900K at well over 5ghz can do. I am on 11th gen locked at 4.6 and can do it. I tested this for a half hour before my post with the Saturn elevator action which I ripped years ago. I tested with the latest beetle core update in the latest RA.
Even so you are right it's nothing like the arcade version, there are at least 2 more frames of lag when I set it apples to apples. So no, you will not get quite the arcade experience with feel, but you do get it with graphics and sound, the graphics being as close as possible bar the small resolution difference. It's as arcade perfect as a home port could be.

8+ frames lag is crazy and no I couldn't handle that so I am glad this one is better than the previous releases. I am sensitive to it and immediately stop playing anything I feel lag with. I guess it comes from my heavy music production background and always striving for ultra low latency with virtual instruments and audio monitoring.