3 passives? Really?

[FadingHope]

So you in know in games like hades you end up with like 30 passives at the end of run... here your slots might be all booked by the time you even leave the first biome if you get a good drop. This feels like a joke, the game was already boring and simplistic enough without that. Jesus, how did these same guys create one of the best roguelites out there?

[Duze]

No, not really.
Perhaps try to advance a little in the game before jumping to this kind of conclusion. :)
Considering how "boring & simplistic" the game seems to be for you, I'm surprised you haven't unlocked thoses upgrade yet.

[Tael]

*laughs with more slots* seriously though its a rogue lite and you didn't try advancing a little more? and i mean you get this upgrade pretty early.....

[CaptainPOCK]

I personally feel like he has a good point. At a certain point, you progress more through being good, rather than actually getting better gear. And once you get good passives, there is no reason to get more or new ones beyond that, rendering any future "choose a passive" useless. Same goes for weapons. I stopped unlocking new weapons to not clog up the weapon pool since I have my go-to build right now which shreds through the game.

Limited slots for passives would make more sense if they could appear in the future again, upgrading your current passive or something. Something like Echo and future improvements to this ability should not occupy more slots, but upgrade the existing one.

That is just my thought though.

[Shiro]

Pretty sure the intended idea is that during first few runs you're not capable of progressing far, nor you have that many gifts to choose from. By the time those two are remedied, you should be able to reach first Gift slot upgrade; 4 slots still can be too tight, but is quite bearable.

However, I agree that its can be easy to get a full gift set of 3 very early on and get uncomfortably stuck way before you're close to unlocking extra gift slots. And it doesn't help that one gift that you really want to have early on (specifically to get those upgrades sooner), "Abundance" (cogs looted +20%), fills yet another valuable gift slot. As a bonus, after you have unlocked everything, it will become completely useless.

I propose a suggestion to remove Abundance from the gift pool, and instead add an option to every gift selection to get an infinitely stackable +20% cogs looted bonus. So you can pick one of three gifts offered, or you can get extra cogs looted in the remainder of your run if you don't have a room for another gift (or if you consider all three offered gifts completely useless for your current build). This could work better than offering a meager shells compensation (besides, after you get Recycle II you can get same 60 shells by selecting a gift and then selling it), and also brings closer the moment you can actually get more gift slots so that next time you will be able to get all your desired choices.

[815|Shouldabeen]

3.7 hours played. He definitely understands the game guys

[dingbat]

If they stocked the mid-biome shops properly then you could theoretically buy a gift slot after each biome

Originally posted by 815|Shouldabeen:

3.7 hours played. He definitely understands the game guys

This sort of thing shouldn't need to be said, what is with the elitism some people have?

Reminds me of teenage-metalhead-posturing, telling 'lesser' people what sub-genre certain bands belong in. Its kinda sad.

[815|Shouldabeen]

Originally posted by dingbat:

If they stocked the mid-biome shops properly then you could theoretically buy a gift slot after each biome

Originally posted by 815|Shouldabeen:

3.7 hours played. He definitely understands the game guys

This sort of thing shouldn't need to be said, what is with the elitism some people have?

Reminds me of teenage-metalhead-posturing, telling 'lesser' people what sub-genre certain bands belong in. Its kinda sad.

It's not elitism. it's actually playing the game. I'm not holding some high standard over his head. At 3 hours in, I guarantee he has seen nothing, so the value of his words on the forums mean exactly that. Nothing.

[Shiro]

Originally posted by 815|Shouldabeen:

Originally posted by dingbat:

This sort of thing shouldn't need to be said, what is with the elitism some people have?

Reminds me of teenage-metalhead-posturing, telling 'lesser' people what sub-genre certain bands belong in. Its kinda sad.

It's not elitism. it's actually playing the game. I'm not holding some high standard over his head. At 3 hours in, I guarantee he has seen nothing, so the value of his words on the forums mean exactly that. Nothing.

Your own playtime is not shown in your profile; I can, for example, assume you did all of two runs (ending at first proper boss) before ragequitting and moving to the forums to troll people here. But that would be quite unpolite, wouldn't it :)

Speaking more seriously, your opinion has several flaws in it:
1) Assumption that players without high playtime (which is stage every players comes through, to remind you) cannot say how they perceived the game. Even if they can properly describe part of the game that feels uncomfortable to them at that moment (way before they can git gud to ignore it or achieve enough meta-orogression to rectify it).
2) Assumption that if someone's opinion about the game is not entirely correct, it's worthless and doesn't have any point in it that can be thought about and discussed.
3) Assumption that you know how much exactly the given player played. Someone could, say, play on friend's PC or his own smurf account, getting dozens of runs without even owning the game; someone else could forget to quit the game before going to weekends ride, getting 40-60 hours of poor axolotl standing still in the Ark hub.
Steam playhours do become more accurate at higher values; if someone has thousands of playtime hours, I can safely assume they're veteran and more or less understand the game at least at basic and mildly advanced levels. But in early access and polishing of basic stuff, this kind of understanding is not necessary to talk about the game.

All of those can, in fact, be rightfully called elitism. Please avoid such toxic behavior at steam forums. Have a nice day.

[815|Shouldabeen]

My playtime is on my profile. I don't hide anything. 25 hours.

1) Should black mage in final fantasy know meteor at level 1? It's essentially what this guy is asking for.

2) It's not an assumption, it's fact. Especially when that person demonstrates that they don't understand what they are talking about. Example : ONLY 3 GIFT SLOTZ?!

3) not assuming. could see it on his profile. the rest of this argument is just circumstantial BS. I'd say the burden of proof falls on him if he falls under "smurf account" territory.

3b) it's not toxic, it's honest. if someone demonstrates they clearly don't know what they're talking about, then also demonstrate that they've clearly done no time investigating said claim, then they should be called out on their BS. It's how people learn.

[CaptainPOCK]

Originally posted by 815|Shouldabeen:

My playtime is on my profile. I don't hide anything. 25 hours.

1) Should black mage in final fantasy know meteor at level 1? It's essentially what this guy is asking for.

2) It's not an assumption, it's fact. Especially when that person demonstrates that they don't understand what they are talking about. Example : ONLY 3 GIFT SLOTZ?!

3) not assuming. could see it on his profile. the rest of this argument is just circumstantial BS. I'd say the burden of proof falls on him if he falls under "smurf account" territory.

3b) it's not toxic, it's honest. if someone demonstrates they clearly don't know what they're talking about, then also demonstrate that they've clearly done no time investigating said claim, then they should be called out on their BS. It's how people learn.

For one, you have your games hidden on your steam profile, hence your play time does not pop up. Even then, playtime does not automatically say how entitled you are for giving suggestions and feedback. I've seen plenty of games where people with only a fraction of my playtime gave excellent suggestions I agreed to in the end - with adjustments.

Limited slots are a design choice. It's up to the devs in the end how they design their game. But even I feel like in those few runs I did, after 2 or 3 picks, I leave all other gifts be in the future. Unless one passive really stands out, in which case sure, I can switch.

The OP has 3 games in their list which use unlimited upgrades, which work exceptionally well because you don't have to make that many choices. You ultimately choose which upgrades are worth to you and you collect them. Which is the case in... I'd say the majority of rogue-likes/rogue-lites.

Third... Yes... yes it's toxic. Snappy comments, replies are based on personal "attacks", sarcasm... That is toxic.

And before you say it, yes, 6.5 hours on record in my case, but that's because the original intend on why I bought this game was diminished due to sudden death. Fun in solo, frustrating in co-op.

[815|Shouldabeen]

Originally posted by CaptainPOCK:

Originally posted by 815|Shouldabeen:

My playtime is on my profile. I don't hide anything. 25 hours.

1) Should black mage in final fantasy know meteor at level 1? It's essentially what this guy is asking for.

2) It's not an assumption, it's fact. Especially when that person demonstrates that they don't understand what they are talking about. Example : ONLY 3 GIFT SLOTZ?!

3) not assuming. could see it on his profile. the rest of this argument is just circumstantial BS. I'd say the burden of proof falls on him if he falls under "smurf account" territory.

3b) it's not toxic, it's honest. if someone demonstrates they clearly don't know what they're talking about, then also demonstrate that they've clearly done no time investigating said claim, then they should be called out on their BS. It's how people learn.

For one, you have your games hidden on your steam profile, hence your play time does not pop up. Even then, playtime does not automatically say how entitled you are for giving suggestions and feedback. I've seen plenty of games where people with only a fraction of my playtime gave excellent suggestions I agreed to in the end - with adjustments.

Limited slots are a design choice. It's up to the devs in the end how they design their game. But even I feel like in those few runs I did, after 2 or 3 picks, I leave all other gifts be in the future. Unless one passive really stands out, in which case sure, I can switch.

The OP has 3 games in their list which use unlimited upgrades, which work exceptionally well because you don't have to make that many choices. You ultimately choose which upgrades are worth to you and you collect them. Which is the case in... I'd say the majority of rogue-likes/rogue-lites.

Third... Yes... yes it's toxic. Snappy comments, replies are based on personal "attacks", sarcasm... That is toxic.

And before you say it, yes, 6.5 hours on record in my case, but that's because the original intend on why I bought this game was diminished due to sudden death. Fun in solo, frustrating in co-op.

1) I do not. You just don't know how to find it. I've even verified this. It shows my playtime clearly.

2) So it seems you don't know what you're talking about either. Let me enlighten you. You eventually unlock the ability to buy gift slots during the run at shops and doors. I've ended runs with 10+ gift slots before (rare but can happen).

2b) This means that op's original suggestion is already in the game. They just haven't progressed past the tutorial yet. Hence why I say "3.7 hours played, he clearly understands the game"

3) No it's not toxic to state facts. Just because the way I present it might not tip-toe around your feelings does not mean it's toxic. If you find it as such, probably should grow some thicker skin.

[dingbat]

Originally posted by 815|Shouldabeen:

It's not elitism. it's actually playing the game. I'm not holding some high standard over his head. At 3 hours in, I guarantee he has seen nothing, so the value of his words on the forums mean exactly that. Nothing.

So it seems you don't know what you're talking about either.

it's not toxic, it's honest. if someone demonstrates they clearly don't know what they're talking about, then also demonstrate that they've clearly done no time investigating said claim, then they should be called out on their BS. It's how people learn.

You sure you know the definition of elitism there bud? You sure as hell sound like you feel like you are better than other people, that's kiiiinda what it means. Sorry to disappoint :(

[TheChemicalCat]

You buy a 4th slot and the ability to buy additional slots during a run. While rare to get more than a 5th, 5 should be enough to get a good build going.

What this game actually needs is the ability to upgrade weapons you want to keep using like Dead Cells.

[815|Shouldabeen]

Originally posted by dingbat:

You sure you know the definition of elitism there bud? You sure as hell sound like you feel like you are better than other people, that's kiiiinda what it means. Sorry to disappoint :(

I don't think it's elitist to expect someone to know what they're talking about.

[CaptainPOCK]

Originally posted by 815|Shouldabeen:

Originally posted by dingbat:

You sure you know the definition of elitism there bud? You sure as hell sound like you feel like you are better than other people, that's kiiiinda what it means. Sorry to disappoint :(

I don't think it's elitist to expect someone to know what they're talking about.

Honestly, at this point you made it pretty clear that you won't be changing your mind. Which is fine, up to you, your life and stuff. But your responses in other topics really give away the type of "discusser" you are. Defend and protect the game at all costs.

Despite your post history showing a much different behavior across other forums, almost a different person. Unfortunate, really.