The "Weight Simulation" Gimmick Must Stop!!

[KyrenCross]

I mean you are supposed to be this great warrior and you get bogged down by weight?

Asgards Wrath got this melee combat locked down years ago and now devs are regressing and making melee combat un-fun.

I mean I will get it if you are just level 1 and work your way up to that state where you could wield your weapon properly, but I dont think that is the case in most VR games.

Just play Asgards Wrath, take note from that combat mechanic and just recreate it and make it better by adding more decapitation, physics, particles, collision, etc.

Lets just stop making melee combat unfun with this unwieldy weight B.S.

[Daniel@Metalcat]

"We will continue tweaking the weight of weapons
Also, if you are using a two-hand weapon, we'd suggest to keep a bit more distance between your two hands so you could hold your weapon more stable"

[Stager]

I loaded up Asgards Wrath to see what you were talking about and I have to disagree. Completely weightless melee combat feels silly, like swinging around a child's plastic toy or cardboard tube.

Getting the balance right is definitely tricky, Blade & Sorcery does a good job, SwordmanVR is pretty good as well and Light Brigade is a rare example or weight done well with firearms. Grimlord is definitely not perfect, but it's headed in the right direction and I'm sure will only get better as Early Access progresses.

[dindonmasker]

i feel like weight on weapons is the only way to make it fair for all weapons. i wouldn't want a massive two handed axe to handle the same as a dagger.

[Kiln]

Asgards wrath's combat was terrible.
Grimlords is also pretty terrible, but I think they have the right idea, and are slowly moving in the right direction. They just need to realize that bouncy weapons suck.
If you want to see good vr melee combat, look at hellsplit, dragonfist, and blade and sorcery.

[Solinarius☕]

If any of the paddle "sword/polearm" designs that are commonly packaged with souls-like games are featured here, I hope they are completely unusable without magic strength gear. Or, maybe the handles can just snap on the first swing .

Has anyone tried the magic? Blade & Sorcery is literally the only title with a good overall experience and a nice variety of magic. VR is lacking much more in that field than melee.

[Wrong Number]

Originally posted by Solinarius:

Has anyone tried the magic? Blade & Sorcery is literally the only title with a good overall experience and a nice variety of magic. VR is lacking much more in that field than melee.

Magic hits like a wet tissue, but maybe i should level up Int to make it better, overall i dont feel any improvement from my stats

[Jarilo]

Asgard's Arcade timing combat style was one of it's worst features, despite being a great game. You and you alone are in this one alone, but you are entitled to your opinion.

[warmer]

Originally posted by Stager:

I loaded up Asgards Wrath to see what you were talking about and I have to disagree. Completely weightless melee combat feels silly, like swinging around a child's plastic toy or cardboard tube.

Getting the balance right is definitely tricky, Blade & Sorcery does a good job, SwordmanVR is pretty good as well and Light Brigade is a rare example or weight done well with firearms. Grimlord is definitely not perfect, but it's headed in the right direction and I'm sure will only get better as Early Access progresses.

I completely agree with you about Blades and Sorcery and Light Brigade, although the aiming of light brigade feels REALLY imprecise at times. I can get the hand distance perfect on a rifle and it's very realistic, if your hand distance is off at all, it doesn't translate to real world (your actual aim/angle)

One thing I do like about the speed of the swings, is it keeps you from cheesing the games AI/mechanics. It wouldn't be any fun if you can swing your sword 5x the speed of an enemy. It has to be balanced somewhat. You will never feel like your sword is moving at the appropriate speed when you have a 3 oz controller in your hand.

To the poster that says it's too slow. Go grab a 2.5 pound long sword and swing that around with one hand for more than a minute at full combat pace and tell me you aren't tired. IT WON'T HAPPEN! lol

Originally posted by Wrong Number:

Originally posted by Solinarius:

Has anyone tried the magic? Blade & Sorcery is literally the only title with a good overall experience and a nice variety of magic. VR is lacking much more in that field than melee.

Magic hits like a wet tissue, but maybe i should level up Int to make it better, overall i dont feel any improvement from my stats

I have leveled it up several times as that is always my main attack and it makes a noticeable difference. Also headshots and body shots don't seem to be equal in damage. I have killed an archer with 3 headshots and also 6 body shots. My guess is it's 2x damaged. Hold your staff 2 handed and then move the bottom hand down towards the bottom of the staff. It makes shots WAY easier to aim.

[hogmeet]

Actually this one feels rather good. I practice HEMA so I know how swinging a sword feels, this isn't perfect it still feels slow but it feels better than most games. Including Blade&Sorcery.

[Solinarius☕]

Originally posted by hogmeet:

Actually this one feels rather good. I practice HEMA so I know how swinging a sword feels, this isn't perfect it still feels slow but it feels better than most games. Including Blade&Sorcery.

B&S' handling can easily be tweaked in the settings. Also, it's the only title with physics to allow binding, so there's really no comparison. It's top-shelf until whenever Warpfrog releases a sequel. No one seems to be in a hurry to do it better than them so...

[hogmeet]

Originally posted by Solinarius:

Originally posted by hogmeet:

Actually this one feels rather good. I practice HEMA so I know how swinging a sword feels, this isn't perfect it still feels slow but it feels better than most games. Including Blade&Sorcery.

B&S' handling can easily be tweaked in the settings. Also, it's the only title with physics to allow binding, so there's really no comparison. It's top-shelf until whenever Warpfrog releases a sequel. No one seems to be in a hurry to do it better than them so... :vlambeerMelting:

I don't think you can in vanilla the binding is good but the AI doesn't use it and by default the tip of your sword lags behind your hand. And you shouldn't have to manually tweak the weapon handling to fix that. It's not bad but the sword lagging behind your hand leaving you exposed and throwing off edge aliment drives me insane. I have fixed it with mod but that credit doesn't go to warpfrog. Don't get me wrong it's good but some small changes to the handling and the AI could make it so much better.

[orowam]

Originally posted by Solinarius:

Originally posted by hogmeet:

Actually this one feels rather good. I practice HEMA so I know how swinging a sword feels, this isn't perfect it still feels slow but it feels better than most games. Including Blade&Sorcery.

B&S' handling can easily be tweaked in the settings. Also, it's the only title with physics to allow binding, so there's really no comparison. It's top-shelf until whenever Warpfrog releases a sequel. No one seems to be in a hurry to do it better than them so... :vlambeerMelting:

"Easilly tweaked" Is an understatement. Making the blades feel like real blades only if you wanna play with 20 different sliders is terrible. Cool they have variables to tweak to make it work as a whole with different pieces, but they are far from having those pieces in the right place.

[Solinarius☕]

Originally posted by orowam:

Originally posted by Solinarius:

B&S' handling can easily be tweaked in the settings. Also, it's the only title with physics to allow binding, so there's really no comparison. It's top-shelf until whenever Warpfrog releases a sequel. No one seems to be in a hurry to do it better than them so...

"Easilly tweaked" Is an understatement. Making the blades feel like real blades only if you wanna play with 20 different sliders is terrible. Cool they have variables to tweak to make it work as a whole with different pieces, but they are far from having those pieces in the right place.

The settings are easy to tweak, the dev should have included a tutorial/explanation with the menu revamp.

The values of "Position" and "Rotation" are applied to your actor's arm joints. I believe "Position" translates to linear axis movement (matching up and down, left and right, back and forth movement of your controller), while "Rotation" translates to joint rotation (matching wrist, forearm, and shoulder pivot and rotation).

"Spring" is the strength of the joint to resist against other collisions. The higher the value, the more force you can apply in a bind.

"Damper" is a counter-force that becomes stronger with a higher value and also depends on how far the tip is from your hand. The harder you try to fight this force, the stronger the resistance; hence the "lag" Hogmeet describes. This is also why fencing weapons tend to behave oddly with swings. Lowering the "Rotational Damper" value will let you swing more naturally with swords. If you lower it too much, then it basically becomes like any other game.

[Ranyk]

Originally posted by Wrong Number:

Originally posted by Solinarius:

Has anyone tried the magic? Blade & Sorcery is literally the only title with a good overall experience and a nice variety of magic. VR is lacking much more in that field than melee.

Magic hits like a wet tissue, but maybe i should level up Int to make it better, overall i dont feel any improvement from my stats

Magic is...overpowered. I can kill basic enemies with only 2 downward (aoe) hits with 5 upgrades aiming at magic regen. Melee requires multiple, multiple, multiple hits, unless there's a special technique to them. The staff is also good at knocking off helmets to hit with a sword.

Overall, the game feels good, but magic does currently feel stronger than melee by a lot, at least in early game. I run with a sword and staff.

[Urnsheme]

Originally posted by KyrenCross:

I mean you are supposed to be this great warrior and you get bogged down by weight?

not every game is a power fantasy, some are meant to be a challenge.