[spoilers] What would you do?

[C1REX]

There is a lot of discussion about genocide and if painted people are real.

But what would you do with such powers?
Would you paint people knowing they will fade away eventually?

I would probably paint and my brain would strongly convince me paintings are not real. Or that a short life is better than no life if my paintings would be that good. I don’t think my brain would resist and let me think it’s not moral to ever paint.

[palacentes]

I think you have some responsibility for the lives of creation. I think it should be like owning pets where you cant be excessively cruel to them and just kill them, but you have to prioritize real people over them... or in this case, other painters, cuz the painted are almost human. I think its too simple and too much of a stretch to call them AI or some kind of robot, when their origins are pretty much miraculous or magical.

if I was a painter, I would prob paint a world. I mean you would be raised to be proud of your power and the painters wont deny their gift. Im sure there are standards, like you shouldnt paint a world and torture the people in there. Or maybe making a world that is too smart is frowned upon. But with how private painting seems to be, how one guy can do anything in there and no one will ever know... I dont think those standards can ever be properly enforced and painters can do anything they like.

I'd try to be a good one. Make a nice world and let it thrive and leave it alone...mostly... visit every now and then... prob be rich in there and paint myself a lot of money.

if you do the endless tower, you will learn that real verso and clea were making creations and battling them for fun. Prob what the gestrals and nevrons were really made for.

[KaktusKotkuebel]

I think it strongly depends on how self-sufficient the painted worlds are, which doesn't seem to be completely clear from the Plot.

If the Painted World would continue indefinitely without Sustenance from the Desseindres they are indeed genocidal Maniacs and Maelle had the right idea to just hide the Paintings.
Since the Desseindres and real Verso were aware that they needed a fraction of their soul to sustain the canvas real verso assumed the responibility for the People in it, when painting it,

I think the most ethical way to deal with such powers would be a neutral third party safekeeping and if needed hiding the painitings (assuming the experience is as addicting in general and the desseindres aren't outliers)

Another interesting ethical question would be if one ought to tell the canvas beings of their circumstance or not.

[Saelin]

You can basically make the same statements about making creations as you can about birthing children, pretty much 1:1. Doing so, however, would bring out a lot of biases because who wants to confront the fact that the world we live in is a pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥ one for most people and many people have children irresponsibly.

Also not like this is one of the first questions the game poses to you or anything.

[Butcher]

Originally posted by Saelin:

You can basically make the same statements about making creations as you can about birthing children, pretty much 1:1. Doing so, however, would bring out a lot of biases because who wants to confront the fact that the world we live in is a pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥ one for most people and many people have children irresponsibly.

Why the world is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ one? Maybe because of the endless greed and desire for power?

[Saelin]

Originally posted by Butcher:

Originally posted by Saelin:

You can basically make the same statements about making creations as you can about birthing children, pretty much 1:1. Doing so, however, would bring out a lot of biases because who wants to confront the fact that the world we live in is a pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥ one for most people and many people have children irresponsibly.

Why the world is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ one? Maybe because of the endless greed and desire for power?

Well we can take humans completely out of the equation and I'd still argue that life on this planet is pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥. It's not like animals treat each other well either. Nature is pretty terrifying.

[Butcher]

Originally posted by Saelin:

Originally posted by Butcher:

Why the world is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ one? Maybe because of the endless greed and desire for power?

Well we can take humans completely out of the equation and I'd still argue that life on this planet is pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥. It's not like animals treat each other well either. Nature is pretty terrifying.

Some of the animals do treat each other well and arguably demonstrate empathy. Human is an animal too. And no need to fault nature, human worked hard to subjugate it. The goal must be trying to get as far from the nature and law of the jungle as possible. The vices should be scorned rather than celebrated and virtues must be praised rather than laughed at.

[Apocalypse]

A short life is better than no life, but certainly painting suffering for personal reasons seems like a poor choice.

But hey, nobody is perfect, so never say never, unless you want to sound like a hypocrite in the long run.

[palacentes]

Originally posted by Apocalypse:

A short life is better than no life, but certainly painting suffering for personal reasons seems like a poor choice.

But hey, nobody is perfect, so never say never, unless you want to sound like a hypocrite in the long run.

I dont think it would be a short life, esquie said that the last time Francois played w Clea was about 200 years ago. The painting exists for a very long time and enough for multiple generations to pass. Maybe it would be awkward for the last generation at the of several hundred years, maybe more than 1000, but for most of the beings there, its just life for them.

[C1REX]

The game doesn’t tell if the paintings can last forever or not. And if not then how long is the life span.

However, I think such power would easily corrupt any person no matter how good natured. Especially if a person could paint in private and paint people and other beings with any personality.

Not possible to do any scientific tests but if it was possible to see what people would create after hundreds of years of painted time it would be likely horrifying. It would destroy the soul of any painter in my opinion.

[Butcher]

Originally posted by C1REX:

However, I think such power would easily corrupt any person no matter how good natured.

Power doesn't corrupt, the character was crap in the first place.

[Meewec]

Originally posted by palacentes:

if you do the endless tower, you will learn that real verso and clea were making creations and battling them for fun. Prob what the gestrals and nevrons were really made for.

gestrils with their love of fighting probably, nevrons were made to tip the scales in the aline/renoir battle by clea

[C1REX]

Originally posted by Butcher:

Originally posted by C1REX:

However, I think such power would easily corrupt any person no matter how good natured.

Power doesn't corrupt

Power does corrupt. Objectively speaking.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5971364/

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/publications/power-corrupts-especially-when-it-lacks-status

[KaktusKotkuebel]

Originally posted by C1REX:

Originally posted by Butcher:

Power doesn't corrupt

Power does corrupt. Objectively speaking.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5971364/

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/publications/power-corrupts-especially-when-it-lacks-status

The second linked article partly contradicts you;

Social hierarchy, the study says, does not on its own generate demeaning tendencies. In other words, the idea that power always corrupts may not be entirely true. Just because someone has power or, alternatively, is in a “low status” role does not mean they will mistreat others. Rather, “power and status interact to produce effects that cannot be fully explained by studying only one or the other basis of hierarchy.”

In this particular example, as god-like figures the Desseindres have a ridicilously high status in this world, so them being total self absorbed jackasses is still on them, not on some sociological phenomenon

[Butcher]

Originally posted by C1REX:

Originally posted by Butcher:

Power doesn't corrupt

Power does corrupt. Objectively speaking.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5971364/

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/publications/power-corrupts-especially-when-it-lacks-status

Power just allow to express all the innate evil that was preprogrammed since the birth. Those who already got tendencies for the abuse merely get the tools to open them to the full potential. If by "corrupt" you mean this - sure, but if all the man needs to stop being a "good boy" is power, then he wasn't a good boy in the first place.

[C1REX]

Originally posted by Butcher:

Originally posted by C1REX:

Power does corrupt. Objectively speaking.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5971364/

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/publications/power-corrupts-especially-when-it-lacks-status

Power just allow to express all the innate evil that was preprogrammed since the birth. Those who already got tendencies for the abuse merely get the tools to open them to the full potential. If by "corrupt" you mean this - sure, but if all the man needs to stop being a "good boy" is power, then he wasn't a good boy in the first place.

A vast majority of people are good because of our society. It’s just better to be good. People like being liked and respected and being good rather than a bad person helps with that.

But it’s different when nobody look. How nobody can see our thoughts when we wish bad to people we hate. Or whatever other thoughts we have that are not „good”.

We are not good by nature. We don’t share our relative wealth and don’t send money to Africa to help starving children. Or how very few personally go to help or work for charity. And those who do still do it for the feelings and respect it leads to.