Being actually unbiased and not blindly rabid and toxic here...

[MJAndre]

I do notice the hypocrisy of gamers who absolutely froth over this game, praising things in this that they HATED in other games, but apparently this gets a free pass..

3D platforming puzzles, always constant whining online about other games doing it, this does it (with janky character movement/controls(, and apparently it's fine.

"Linear" path map design rather than open world freedom... Yet people ♥♥♥♥♥♥' *raged* about Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy XIII being direct linear paths, AKA *exactly the same damn thing*, constantly demanding open world freedom (note; Final Fantasy, even the old ones with world maps, were exactly the same linear direction, the Illusion of Choice), people are just easily fooled.

The character designs in this look... Generic, to be honest. A lot of bland colours. None of the Gestrals seem all that memorable to me, but Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest creature designs are *very* memorable.

Not to mention the people that blindly assume that Final Fantasy as a series *has to be turn-based*. It does not, and not even Hironobu Sakaguchi himself thinks that. From Final Fantasy *2* onwards, it has always been about evolution and change, to not do what they did before, or to further challenge themselves more than what the previous iterations were/ Considering FF1-3 was *planned* to be a direct trilogy (and inspired by Star Wars original trilogy being "Episode" titles, FF2 production began and they threw everything out and started fresh, aiming to be *different* than FF1,
The *only* thing that defines a Final Fantasy title is its use of crystals, Warriors of Light, Cid, Chocobos, Moogles, FF summon deities, and the FF naming conventions of towns and item/spell names. Literally everything else can be done totally fresh.
Objectively speaking, to those online who proclaim this to be "the best Final Fantasy game", it objectively is not a Final Fantasy title, and being turn-based doesn't even make *Final Fantasy* a Final Fantasy title. It's simply the combat system that the devs used for that particular game. Hell, NOT ALL JRPGS ARE TURN-BASED.
Tales of... series from Bandai Namco.
Star Ocean from Square.
Soul Blazer/Illusion of Gaia/Terranigma from Enix on SNES.
The Last Story from Mistwalker/Sakaguchi on the Nintendo Wii.
There have always been action JRPGs, not solely turn-based JRPGs. The sub-genre of JRPG does NOT inherently mean turn-based. Never has.

I so very much want to really enjoy Expedition 33 (and it's still great!, but I've unfortunately found the fanbase to be utterly insufferable just from how hypocritical, delusional, contradictory, and clouded by nostalgia these people clearly are.

I strongly, *strongly* dislike rabid toxic ignorance and blind biased praise without logical thought, *especially* when the "praise" contradicts past "critique" of the *exact same thing*.
The people praising this for "adopting" Legend of Dragoon's overworld map (literally walking along a dotted line between locations) is quite possibly the worst thing to be taking from that game. The timed QTE attacks were cool, but Lost Odyssey (Mistwalker/Sakaguchi's game from Xbox 360) did it WAY better. If you're gonna do an traversable "world map", do a Ni no Kuni or PS1 era FF, not Legend of Dragoon...
Heck, turn-based combat has MANY flaws. I generally like it, but it can be excessively tedious and monotonous, especially when actions are set out of order, or you've locked in an attack and it can't be changed if the situation changes, so it just wastes a turn. The dodging/parrying/jumping mechanic in Expedition 33 is cool and all, but it's still too restrictive, you can't react/change ability immediately.

I know though, as this *is* the Steam discussion forums, and people are so vehemently obsessive, common sense, critical thinking for yourself (instead of a hivemind), and using actual logic is lost on... Most people on here. :) So all people known what to do is blindly "award" Steam's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Points stuff...

EDIT: So aside from the, like, maybe 3 people who clearly ACTUALLY read this post and didn't just blindly go into a fanatical defensive rage defending everything about this game doing exactly the same thing as past games that were criticised for doing it.. Therefore PROVING MY POINT, I'm just going to ignore the rabidly toxic defence squad.

[Adun]

Very strange theory: the people complaining about these things in one game are not the same people who don't mind them in another game.

[E.V. Barnard]

Originally posted by MJAndre:

So all people known what to do is blindly "award" Steam's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Points stuff...

Obvious clown farm...I like how you pretty much admit it at the end here. lol

[MJAndre]

Originally posted by E.V. Barnard:

Originally posted by MJAndre:

So all people known what to do is blindly "award" Steam's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Points stuff...

Obvious clown farm...I like how you pretty much admit it at the end here. lol

Um, nah bud. In fact I absolutely hate the system on Steam.

[MakitaRotSprout]

Every game has some element that isn't perfect. Elden Ring has Jori. I don't see why it's hypocritical to say that overall it's a great game but the platforming is a war crime.

[MJAndre]

Originally posted by Adun:

Very strange theory: the people complaining about these things in one game are not the same people who don't mind them in another game.

Objectively false. There are a ton of hypocritical and contradictory toxic gamers, have been for decades. Even from FF title to next FF title. The PS1 era especially was FULL of contradictory fans who suddenly hate what they claimed they liked and like what they claimed they hated.

[Weltall8000]

Pretty good argument overall. Yeah, a lot of hypocrisy. I like the game, but, damn, some of this is ridiculous.

[MJAndre]

Originally posted by MakitaRotSprout:

Every game has some element that isn't perfect. Elden Ring has Jori. I don't see why it's hypocritical to say that overall it's a great game but the platforming is a war crime.

This isn't about it being a "great" game. It's the constant blind hivemind claim of "flawless masterpiece" that is utterly ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ insane. *That* is the issue, and it's extremist terminally online gamers that perpetuate it.

[MakitaRotSprout]

Originally posted by MJAndre:

Originally posted by MakitaRotSprout:

Every game has some element that isn't perfect. Elden Ring has Jori. I don't see why it's hypocritical to say that overall it's a great game but the platforming is a war crime.

This isn't about it being a "great" game. It's the constant blind hivemind claim of "flawless masterpiece" that is utterly ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ insane. *That* is the issue, and it's extremist terminally online gamers that perpetuate it.

I haven't seen anyone say it's flawless.

[Talbot]

I think you've got a few flawed assumptions here:

1- That the people who complained about something once are the same people who are praising it now.

2 - That anyone likes the platforming sections in this game, every forum is full of people cursing the gestral beaches.

3 - That just because something doesn't work in one context (say, hypothetically, in a Final Fantasy game) that it can't work anywhere else. COE33 is heavily inspired by Final Fantasy (particularly VIII), but ultimately has pretty different aims. The way the saving mechanics work is a good example of this, because COE33 has a lot of themes that are specifically about choice, consequence, and moving forward in spite of hardship that might not be present in most other games, and some of the mechanics are designed to reflect those themes.

4 - That the overworld map works as you describe. It feels fairly linear early, but you get pretty complete, Final Fantasy-style freedom of movement as it goes.

5 - That the game or maps are as linear as you seem to think. Most dungeons have plenty of optional side paths, and the game's sequencing becomes pretty flexible/open as you gain more means of transportation.


6 - Most of all, that this game should be in any way defined by what Final Fantasy did or didn't do, given that it's not a member of that franchise and isn't being presented as such.

[MJAndre]

Let's also add to the hypocrisy by noting how people who seem to think Final Fantasy should ONLY EVER BE TURN-BASED and so FFXVI "sucks" because of that...

Ben Starr is the voice of Verso in Clair Obscur.
Ben Starr is the voice of Clive Rosfield in FF16 (and his favourite game is outspokenly FF8).

The people dragging down one game just to prop up another on some sort of pedestal are easily the most childish brats to ever walk the earth.

[E.V. Barnard]

Originally posted by MJAndre:

Originally posted by E.V. Barnard:

Obvious clown farm...I like how you pretty much admit it at the end here. lol

Um, nah bud. In fact I absolutely hate the system on Steam.

yeah, that's why you posted this bad take rant...complaining about made up people that complained about something in one game then praised the same thing in this game...talking about being unbiased before ranting about how much you hate the game while calling anyone who doesn't foam at the mouth like you delusional. I also love how you accuse everyone who likes the game of being biased by nostalgia while you fellate final fantasy.

[MJAndre]

Originally posted by MakitaRotSprout:

Originally posted by MJAndre:

This isn't about it being a "great" game. It's the constant blind hivemind claim of "flawless masterpiece" that is utterly ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ insane. *That* is the issue, and it's extremist terminally online gamers that perpetuate it.

I haven't seen anyone say it's flawless.

You clearly have not read the reviews on the Steam store page.

[MakitaRotSprout]

I've never played a single Final Fantasy game.

[MJAndre]

Originally posted by E.V. Barnard:

Originally posted by MJAndre:

Um, nah bud. In fact I absolutely hate the system on Steam.

yeah, that's why you posted this bad take rant...complaining about made up people that complained about something in one game then praised the same thing in this game...talking about being unbiased before ranting about how much you hate the game while calling anyone who doesn't foam at the mouth like you delusional. I also love how you accuse everyone who likes the game of being biased by nostalgia while you fellate final fantasy.

Where did I say I hate the game, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥? Did you even bother to read? Having logical criticism rather than blind fanaticism does NOT MEAN HATING IT.
Jesus ♥♥♥♥♥♥' Christ....
I OWN THIS GAME. I DO REALLY LIKE A LOT ABOUT IT.
It's called NUANCE.

[MJAndre]

Originally posted by MakitaRotSprout:

I've never played a single Final Fantasy game.

Then it's not about you and not everything revolves around you. :) Have some sort of logical thought.