Something I wondered about Lune. [Finished game discussion]

[Cymelion]

I'm not sure how to put this correctly into words.

I have finished the game and did both endings so I am aware of why this would be pointless based on the current lore of the game.

However I am wondering if the original direction of the game was a little different with it's lore and story and Lune was meant to be a figment of Gustave's imagination until he met Maelle.

When you are after the landing Gustave sits down at a pile of bodies and tries to Persona himself and suddenly Lune is there convincing him not to do it. Even saying "If you do that we both die" Throughout the beginning area and up until they meet Maelle Lune doesn't ever touch or interact physically Gustave at all sometimes not even when she clearly would.

Until Maelle actually acknowledged Lune I genuinely thought she was never there and the way the game starts genuinely makes me think it might have been that way until they changed it later. Perhaps they didn't want to remove the characters moves and playstyle or perhaps I am reading into it it too much but seriously.

Did anyone else think Lune was not real after the beach landing before meeting Maelle?

[Adun]

No, I think "If you do that, we both die" was meant to express that Lune would give up, too. And Gustave's a carer, he wouldn't leave one of his friends alone in a hostile environment. The slightly disjointed sequence of the whole thing is due to Gustave's traumatization.

You can talk to Lune at the Gommage party before the expedition leaves. She's working on the expedition diary and planning. She's clearly real.

[Cymelion]

Originally posted by Adun:

No, I think "If you do that, we both die" was meant to express that Lune would give up, too. And Gustave's a carer, he wouldn't leave one of his friends alone in a hostile environment. The slightly disjointed sequence of the whole thing is due to Gustave's traumatization.

You can talk to Lune at the Gommage party before the expedition leaves. She's working on the expedition diary and planning. She's clearly real.

No I agree Lune was playing the Guitar in the city and being observed by all and as you say part of the expedition and someone Gustave was working with for the Lumina Converter. So she was definitely real and on the expedition in the prologue.

But after the Beaching scene when Gustave was alone he moves to the pile of bodies where Lune was not seen sits down and with no noise and the camera angle moving around Gustave to show Lune she starts talking - the way it is presented is reminiscent of movies like Fight Club's Tyler Durden and The Narrator.

[Adun]

Originally posted by Cymelion:

But after the Beaching scene when Gustave was alone he moves to the pile of bodies where Lune was not seen sits down and with no noise and the camera angle moving around Gustave to show Lune she starts talking - the way it is presented is reminiscent of movies like Fight Club's Tyler Durden and The Narrator.

For me that's clearly trauma. Time runs strangely when you just escaped a life-or-death situation, your brain is trying to shield you and at the same time everything is hyper-real. We don't even know how long Gustave was sitting there with his gun.

[Cymelion]

Originally posted by Adun:

Originally posted by Cymelion:

But after the Beaching scene when Gustave was alone he moves to the pile of bodies where Lune was not seen sits down and with no noise and the camera angle moving around Gustave to show Lune she starts talking - the way it is presented is reminiscent of movies like Fight Club's Tyler Durden and The Narrator.

For me that's clearly trauma. Time runs strangely when you just escaped a life-or-death situation, your brain is trying to shield you and at the same time everything is hyper-real. We don't even know how long Gustave was sitting there with his gun.

Perhaps - and not a bad explanation but it does leave out the fact that the game almost purposefully ensures Lune and Gustave do not ever physically interact during any of the game up until after the point they meet Maelle. Not even a "Here let me help you up" hand gesture or a hand on the shoulder support moment. Always just them talking and Lune pushing them forward the whole time.

[Adun]

I think you're reading far too much into something that has probably no meaning whatsoever.

[Tenshu]

"Tries to persona himself"
LOL. Let's be clear though that's just P3, the others didn't go THAT edgy.

[Cymelion]

Originally posted by Tenshu:

"Tries to persona himself"
LOL. Let's be clear though that's just P3, the others didn't go THAT edgy.

I know I saw it on a youtube clip and it really stuck as a funny phrase.

[jax]

Originally posted by Cymelion:

Perhaps - and not a bad explanation but it does leave out the fact that the game almost purposefully ensures Lune and Gustave do not ever physically interact during any of the game up until after the point they meet Maelle. Not even a "Here let me help you up" hand gesture or a hand on the shoulder support moment. Always just them talking and Lune pushing them forward the whole time.

Actually they do interact quite a few times before they find Maelle. I remember at least three instances of physical interaction between them before Maelle.

1. In the cutscene before the first boss (Eveque) Lune clings to Gustave's arm.
2. At the start of the indigo tree scene Lune gives Gustave a pat on the shoulder.
3. Right before they enter the Manor (where they find Maelle) Lune pulls Gustave back to check the corners of the hut and then gives him another pat on the back

[Visser]

the big deal with Lune and Gustave in my opinion is they both KNEW the other expeditions failed, they had a record of even getting to the monolith and not being able to win, including the one miniboss near the reach
his lumina converter weapon was supposed to be THEIR expeditions big difference, and the idea of him giving up and potentially leaving her alone? that would guarentee their failure, which would mean she gets gomaged or dies in combat. she KNEW she needed him, she couldnt do it alone.
plus shes just being a good friend, like it's not a major surprise that a friend wants another friend to live....

[DmonHiro]

There no way that could ever be true. "If you do that, we both die." simply meant that if he pulled the trigger, it would kill Lune too as she put herself right next to him.

[Moon Rabbit]

Originally posted by Adun:

No, I think "If you do that, we both die" was meant to express that Lune would give up, too. And Gustave's a carer, he wouldn't leave one of his friends alone in a hostile environment. The slightly disjointed sequence of the whole thing is due to Gustave's traumatization.

You can talk to Lune at the Gommage party before the expedition leaves. She's working on the expedition diary and planning. She's clearly real.

I think she meant if he shot himself the bullet would continue on into her head. Since she was sitting so close to him.

[jax]

Originally posted by Moon Rabbit:

I think she meant if he shot himself the bullet would continue on into her head. Since she was sitting so close to him.

That was my impression as well. The thing I find interesting is that she puts herself in so much danger in the first place. She could have just said something like: "Don't do it" or maybe slap the gun out of his hand.

My personal interpretation of that scene is, that she was almost as desperate as Gustave and did not know how she could go on after what happened (she blames herself for everyone dying). Alone she would have no chance. Seeing Gustave about to pull the trigger, she put her life in his hand and left the decision to him. If he goes out, he might as well take her with him. "You do that, we both die" is to remind him that he is about to decide the fate of two lives now, not just his own. The moment Gustave put the gun away, she had her answer: We Continue

[Cymelion]

Originally posted by jax:

Originally posted by Cymelion:

Perhaps - and not a bad explanation but it does leave out the fact that the game almost purposefully ensures Lune and Gustave do not ever physically interact during any of the game up until after the point they meet Maelle. Not even a "Here let me help you up" hand gesture or a hand on the shoulder support moment. Always just them talking and Lune pushing them forward the whole time.

Actually they do interact quite a few times before they find Maelle. I remember at least three instances of physical interaction between them before Maelle.

1. In the cutscene before the first boss (Eveque) Lune clings to Gustave's arm.
2. At the start of the indigo tree scene Lune gives Gustave a pat on the shoulder.
3. Right before they enter the Manor (where they find Maelle) Lune pulls Gustave back to check the corners of the hut and then gives him another pat on the back

Oh really?
I’ll have to double check how they’re done but could still work in principle with my theory if it was changed later in development.

Wow though.
Not gonna lie I am a little shocked that no else felt it but I’m not denying everyone’s experience and I have no way of asking the devs if it was true and I doubt they’d ever talk about it if they did. But I genuinely thought more people would think this way or at least suspect it a little until she was confirmed real by someone else talking to her.

Maybe watching Fight Club all those years ago made me more suspicious of media than I need to be.