(Spoilers) Comparing the two Endings/Implications

[Ratsplat]

Verso | Fake: Quite potentially the best ending. Verso may have been fake, but if his actual soul was in the canvas, it could be said that her big brother protected her for the second time, which also effectively 'kills' him again for the second time. Alicia and her family will heal a bit in the real world, and later on they can safely delve back into other paintings once their heads are clear.

Verso | Real: Easily the worst ending, due to it effectively being genocide. And if Verso himself was real, then he truly was a villain and such. He doomed the painted world, and rid it of the one person that could have allowed it to thrive.

Alicia | Fake: I would rate this ending as being mostly neutral. She'd effectively be living in a land of delusion if everything truly was fake around her. However, it isn't entirely bad due to just how terrible her real life was. You just have to hope that she eventually knows to leave the painting at some point. She can easily make her own special canvas. And if everything is fake, then you have no excuse for showing remorse for Verso. If anything, only the fragment of his soul should be shown remorse, though I don't know if it's entirely shown whether he was truly tired of painting or not.

Alicia | Real: I would personally say this ending is better than the 'Verso | Fake' ending for one very specific reason. If everyone in the painting was real, then that means the rest of the game was not a 'waste' and actually mattered. This isn't something I strongly latch onto in relation to other angles, but I know it has been a major contention for many others. And as such, if Verso truly is real within the painting, we can only hope that Maelle allows him his peace at some point.

[Platapoop]

Well genoicde of Gestrals maybe. Renoir already genocided the citizens. I think they have reiterated many times that entities recreated are the same but different, or to simplify, they are essentially copies of the original.

So even if Alicia recreates the citizens, the original ones are still dead.

Also Sciel being happy and not having her baby is a little sussy because she sees it during Sirene

[Ratsplat]

Originally posted by Platapoop:

Well genoicde of Gestrals maybe. Renoir already genocided the citizens. I think they have reiterated many times that entities recreated are the same but different, or to simplify, they are essentially copies of the original.

So even if Alicia recreates the citizens, the original ones are still dead.

Also Sciel being happy and not having her baby is a little sussy because she sees it during Sirene

I've always understood all of these angles, and agree with them even, but I will likely always go the route of: Everything is up to interpretation, and the last thing we should do is say that everything is cut and dry. There's so many things that can honestly go either way, and we will likely never be able to stop talking about any of it until official confirmations come out. Which we may never get...

In another thread I've gone over some good evidence showing that her Ending may actually be happier than many believe, despite the black and white and other strange fakeness about it.

[Platapoop]

Yes, I'm not going to say 100% that's devs wanted us to understand if the people get recreated they aren't the originals. But it is my assumption.

[BobBobson]

Originally posted by Platapoop:

Well genoicde of Gestrals maybe. Renoir already genocided the citizens. I think they have reiterated many times that entities recreated are the same but different, or to simplify, they are essentially copies of the original.

So even if Alicia recreates the citizens, the original ones are still dead.

Also Sciel being happy and not having her baby is a little sussy because she sees it during Sirene

Whether they are copies or not they appear to have a consciousness. They are very much "real" even if they are painted. Their lives carry on, they have children who would carry on etc. The painters are essentially literal gods deciding their very existence. Maelle's ending is bad for Maelle long term (or short term) but there's no suggestions that the universe inside the picture ends unless someone outside destroys it. Fundamentally it feels like the trolley car dilemma to me. Are their lives worth less than the "gods" that painted them? The ending kind of suggests the idea that they are somehow lesser than the painters. Hence it's a "bad" ending when "only" they survive (at least until Renoir decides to obliterate them). But their reality is real to them, at least as far as the game depicts it. So if you pick Maelle then Verso is unhappy and Maelle is doomed but a whole society (plus the Gestrals, and Esquie and the rest) get to carry on perhaps indefinitely.

The endings are kind of the only sour note for me because of this. Unless the suggestion is that all the none painters are Sims, which the game never posits, then we are forced to view the whole situation through the eyes of the painters at the end. That somehow we should pick Verso's ending because it's best for Maelle and Verso. But it's objectively terrible for many thousands of other sentient beings.

[Theo]

The one thing I don't understand is why the fragment of Verso's soul is tired of painting and thus maintaining the world. Even if Verso didn't die the fragment would still be painting right?

[Ratsplat]

Originally posted by Theo:

The one thing I don't understand is why the fragment of Verso's soul is tired of painting and thus maintaining the world. Even if Verso didn't die the fragment would still be painting right?

My biggest question: If the soul itself was tired, why did it not quit by itself?

[C1REX]

After more thinking about the endings I don’t consider one being better than the other. Just different perspectives to think about.

The whole story, suffering, fracture started because Maelle did something that caused Verso’s death. And we don’t know how much of an accident it was or if Maelle really did something wrong.
I also wonder why her mother and sister don’t like her so much. Even before Verso’s death.

[Ogami]

Originally posted by Theo:

The one thing I don't understand is why the fragment of Verso's soul is tired of painting and thus maintaining the world. Even if Verso didn't die the fragment would still be painting right?

This whole thing makes no sense anyway. Apparently painters leave a part of their soul in the canvases they create to keep the creation going.
Its mentioned that Aline and Renoir have painted hundreds of canvases over the years.
So unless they burned all of them afterwards there are hundreds of paintings out there with parts of their souls in them. They seem fine about it. So i dont get why its such a big deal with the Verso soul fragment.
Also you meet the boy multiple times during the game and he tells you that he loves this world and its creations and that he wants them to continue to exist.
But then at the end the game and Verso is like " oh this is torture for that poor soul fragment of Verso, we must free him , he wants to stop painting!"

What? That comes completely out of nowhere to justify the 2 ending split and goes contrary to what we learned how painting those magical canvases works.
I just felt it was way too contrived and the story writers needed a bigger reason for players to side with Verso. Because " i am tired of being alive so i want to die and i dont care that i take an entire world with me" is not really a compelling argument.

[Ratsplat]

Originally posted by Ogami:

Originally posted by Theo:

The one thing I don't understand is why the fragment of Verso's soul is tired of painting and thus maintaining the world. Even if Verso didn't die the fragment would still be painting right?

This whole thing makes no sense anyway. Apparently painters leave a part of their soul in the canvases they create to keep the creation going.
Its mentioned that Aline and Renoir have painted hundreds of canvases over the years.
So unless they burned all of them afterwards there are hundreds of paintings out there with parts of their souls in them. They seem fine about it. So i dont get why its such a big deal with the Verso soul fragment.
Also you meet the boy multiple times during the game and he tells you that he loves this world and its creations and that he wants them to continue to exist.
But then at the end the game and Verso is like " oh this is torture for that poor soul fragment of Verso, we must free him , he wants to stop painting!"

What? That comes completely out of nowhere to justify the 2 ending split and goes contrary to what we learned how paiting those magical canvases works.
I just felt it was way too contrived and the story writers needed a bigger reason for players to side with Verso. Because " i am tired of being alive so i want to die and i dont care that i take an entire world with me" is not really a compelling argument. :lunar2019grinningpig:

If we have to destroy the painting because a soul is tired, then everyone must agree that every painting ever created must be destroyed immediately. Wouldn't want a single soul to ever be tired of painting. Or do people just want excuses as to why Verso's end is better no matter what?

[Platapoop]

Originally posted by BobBobson:

Whether they are copies or not they appear to have a consciousness. They are very much "real" even if they are painted. Their lives carry on, they have children who would carry on etc. The painters are essentially literal gods deciding their very existence. Maelle's ending is bad for Maelle long term (or short term) but there's no suggestions that the universe inside the picture ends unless someone outside destroys it.

What I mean is that if they are simply copies, then the people who have been gommaged are gommaged forever. There's nothing you can do for them, and Maelle creating copies is just cope. However, if they aren't copies and she actually brought them back to life again in the ending, then the case for Maelle's ending is stronger.

[Ogami]

Originally posted by Platapoop:

What I mean is that if they are simply copies, then the people who have been gommaged are gommaged forever. There's nothing you can do for them, and Maelle creating copies is just cope. However, if they aren't copies and she actually brought them back to life again in the ending, then the case for Maelle's ending is stronger.

I mean, the game pretty much says how it is. She brings back Sciel and Lune because she collected their chroma when she fled Lumire with Verso.
Both remember everything up to being gommaged so its pretty clear its the same people just being "rematerialized" from the chroma they turn to when hit by the gommage.
And Alicia/Maelle´s reason to fight Renoir is that he currently controls the rest of the "pure" chroma of the canvas which is made up of all those people.
So she needs to get control to bring them all back.

Now one argument against this that i read is that she brings back Gustave in the end but he did not get gommaged but died in the world. And the other expeditioners who died did not disolve but turned to "stone" or similar and kept their chroma inside their bodies.
That was the reason Clea created the Nevrons to keep that chroma from returning to Aline since expeditioners killed by Nevrons did not turn into chroma.
Thats why Alicia/Maelle can only summon those "shadow" copies of those people who died long ago since their chroma has decayed over the years.

So should this not happend to Gustave too? BUT, if you actually go back to the place where Gustave died you dont find any body, plus he was killed by Renoir and not by a Nevron.
So most likely he could be rematerialized by Alica/Maelle after she had full control of the canvas.

Same for Sciels husband, Pierre. He did not die by Nevron hand but through an accident so his chroma returned to the canvas, so he could be brought back.

[Ratsplat]

Originally posted by Ogami:

Originally posted by Platapoop:

What I mean is that if they are simply copies, then the people who have been gommaged are gommaged forever. There's nothing you can do for them, and Maelle creating copies is just cope. However, if they aren't copies and she actually brought them back to life again in the ending, then the case for Maelle's ending is stronger.

I mean, the game pretty much says how it is. She brings back Sciel and Lune because she collected their chroma when she fled Lumire with Verso.
Both remember everything up to being gommaged so its pretty clear its the same people just being "rematerialized" from the chroma they turn to when hit by the gommage.
And Alicia/Maelle´s reason to fight Renoir is that he currently controls the rest of the "pure" chroma of the canvas which is made up of all those people.
So she needs to get control to bring them all back.

Now one argument against this that i read is that she brings back Gustave in the end but he did not get gommaged but died in the world. And the other expeditioners who died did not disolve but turned to "stone" or similar and kept their chroma inside their bodies.
That was the reason Clea created the Nevrons to keep that chroma from returning to Aline since expeditioners killed by Nevrons did not turn into chroma.
Thats why Alicia/Maelle can only summon those "shadow" copies of those people who died long ago since their chroma has decayed over the years.

So should this not happend to Gustave too? BUT, if you actually go back to the place where Gustave died you dont find any body, plus he was killed by Renoir and not by a Nevron.
So most likely he could be rematerialized by Alica/Maelle after she had full control of the canvas.

Same for Sciels husband, Pierre. He did not die by Nevron hand but through an accident so his chroma returned to the canvas, so he could be brought back.

And don't forget what I've said elsewhere: Gustave is still missing his arm, so he was brought back. A perfect Gustave would have his arm. EVERYONE brought back in her ending was not killed by a Nevron. Gustave not gommaging after death does not matter. Corpses turning into Chroma naturally could have any number of duration. Maybe they rot in the ground after a month of being buried, releasing their chroma. All that matters is that Nevrons did not kill anyone that is relevant to this discussion.

[Ogami]

Honestly in the end i dont care which ending you choose. If you are happy with the Verso ending thats fine.
I just have a problem when those people insist that their ending is the "good" ending and anyone who choos Maelle is "wrong" and then start talking down to me like i am a 5 year old who just does not understand what the game wants to tell me.

Just be happy with your ending and i am happy with the ending to MY version of the story.
Is that so hard without being condescending and passive agressive?

[Platapoop]

Originally posted by Ogami:

I mean, the game pretty much says how it is. She brings back Sciel and Lune because she collected their chroma when she fled Lumire with Verso.
Both remember everything up to being gommaged so its pretty clear its the same people just being "rematerialized" from the chroma they turn to when hit by the gommage.
And Alicia/Maelle´s reason to fight Renoir is that he currently controls the rest of the "pure" chroma of the canvas which is made up of all those people.
So she needs to get control to bring them all back.

Would you give a similar reasoning to Noko? My assumption was that that relationship quest was to tell us that even if they are brought to life, the Noco we know is gone (or did the game use the word dead?).

[Ogami]

Originally posted by Platapoop:

Would you give a similar reasoning to Noko? My assumption was that that relationship quest was to tell us that even if they are brought to life, the Noco we know is gone (or did the game use the word dead?).

But Noco did not disolve into chroma. The Gestrals come with their own immortality system thats build into their race, they can be "reborn" but lack large parts of the memories from before they died. Maybe because they are just animated wood puppets in the first place.
I dont think that comparable with the humans and how the painters use chroma to bring people back.