RENOIR, anyone else think it was a very dumb idea to ... SPOILERS!

[Xan84]

Kill Gustave? That would've been one of the biggest reasons for Maelle to side with them? The more he has to care about the canvas, the more likely she is to side with them.
PS. I obviously mean painted Renoir.

[Genosse Kommissar]

My guy is on a mission to purge and purge he does!

Maybe he trusted that once she regains her memories she would stop prioritizing her fake friends. At this point he probably saw Aline as the main problem.

[Widgit]

Originally posted by Xan84:

Kill Gustave? That would've been one of the biggest reasons for Maelle to side with them? The more he has to care about the canvas, the more likely she is to side with them.
PS. I obviously mean painted Renoir.

He wounded him but didn't immediately kill him. He was waiting for the best moment to restrain Maelle and try to restore her memories. Gustave had an opportunity to run, but he stayed to fight. And not only did he fight while mortally wounded, but he actually was able to knock Renoir on his ass. At that point, Renoir decided he's going to have no choice but to finish Gustave off to get to Maelle.

[Ogami]

I guess because at this point they only knew that Clea send Alicia into the canvas to help the real Renoir to extract Aline from it.
But Aline noticed her arrival and overpainted her with the Maelle personality.
Also if you read the journal entries of Aline you can find she really does not like her daughter Alicia and blames her for Verso´s death. Thats why even the painted Alicia version is disfigured and mute as a punishment in the canvas world.
So i guess their reasoning was killing them all and removing them from the playfield so to speak.

[Xan84]

Originally posted by Genosse Kommissar:

My guy is on a mission to purge and purge he does!

Maybe he trusted that once she regains her memories she would stop prioritizing her fake friends.

Why would he want that? Her fake friends means the canvas, painted Renoir also wanted the canvas, not to have it destroyed. That is, unless I got it wrong what you mean by fake friends.

Originally posted by Widgit:

Originally posted by Xan84:

Kill Gustave? That would've been one of the biggest reasons for Maelle to side with them? The more he has to care about the canvas, the more likely she is to side with them.
PS. I obviously mean painted Renoir.

He wounded him but didn't immediately kill him. He was waiting for the best moment to restrain Maelle and try to restore her memories. Gustave had an opportunity to run, but he stayed to fight. And not only did he fight while mortally wounded, but he actually was able to knock Renoir on his ass. At that point, Renoir decided he's going to have no choice but to finish Gustave off to get to Maelle.

And how does that make sense. Renoir should've done everything in his power to make friends with her and get her on HIS SIDE.

Originally posted by Ogami:

I guess because at this point they only knew that Clea send Alicia into the canvas to help the real Renoir to extract Aline from it.
But Aline noticed her arrival and overpainted her with the Maelle personality.
Also if you read the journal entries of Aline you can find she really does not like her daughter Alicia and blames her for Verso´s death. Thats why even the painted Alicia version is disfigured and mute as a punishment in the canvas world.
So i guess their reasoning was killing them all and removing them from the playfield so to speak.

You can't kill her. Renoir also has a working brain. That is contraproductive for what he is trying to do.

[Drax]

Gustave is dead within a year anyway. Either way Maelle will want to continue to the Paintress to try and stop the Gommage. If he tells her too much and she figures out who she is, that also presents a risk to him too. And conflict with Aline is likely since she blames Maelle for Verso's death.

[Xan84]

Originally posted by Drax:

Gustave is dead within a year anyway. Either way Maelle will want to continue to the Paintress to try and stop the Gommage. If he tells her too much and she figures out who she is, that also presents a risk to him too.

Imagine if she knew the truth, all of them knew the truth. Maelle would've chosen Gustave and her friends 100%. Again, in my book was a very dumb move to kill Gustave. Gustave and the team would've joined them to stop the father from destroying the canvas.

[Widgit]

Originally posted by Xan84:

And how does that make sense. Renoir should've done everything in his power to make friends with her and get her on HIS SIDE.

He's been dealing with this crap for 100 years, let's just say he's a little jaded and probably has very little interest in dealing with Expeditions. I'm pretty sure he doesn't even view them as people. He only cares about his family at this point, and he's emotionally blind to anything else. "She'll understand why I had to do it. She just needs to remember. We both want what's best for our families."

[Ogami]

Originally posted by Xan84:

You can't kill her. Renoir also has a working brain. That is contraproductive for what he is trying to do.

Of course you can kill her. It will only destroy the Maelle personality and throw her back into her real world body but would remove her from the painting.
He literally is trying to strike her down when Verso arrives to block the attack.

Plus the whole " this is all her fault" speech when Renoir and painted Alicia talk to Maelle in the nightmare.
Aline blames her for everything that happend so far, so thats why she sees her as an enemy.

[Widgit]

Originally posted by Ogami:

Originally posted by Xan84:

You can't kill her. Renoir also has a working brain. That is contraproductive for what he is trying to do.

Of course you can kill her. It will only destroy the Maelle personality and throw her back into her real world body but would remove her from the painting.
He literally is trying to strike her down when Verso arrives to block the attack.

Before he tried to strike her down, he tried to get her memories repainted. It didn't work.

[Xan84]

Originally posted by Widgit:

Originally posted by Xan84:

And how does that make sense. Renoir should've done everything in his power to make friends with her and get her on HIS SIDE.

He's been dealing with this crap for 100 years, let's just say he's a little jaded and probably has very little interest in dealing with Expeditions. I'm pretty sure he doesn't even view them as people. He only cares about his family at this point, and he's emotionally blind to anything else. "She'll understand why I had to do it. She just needs to remember. We both want what's best for our families."

His goal is to preserve his family, having a painter on his side and not only the mother would help him achieve that. Obviously. Expections would also be on his side if the truth came out.
Again, makes no sense.

Originally posted by Ogami:

Originally posted by Xan84:

You can't kill her. Renoir also has a working brain. That is contraproductive for what he is trying to do.

Of course you can kill her. It will only destroy the Maelle personality and throw her back into her real world body but would remove her from the painting.
He literally is trying to strike her down when Verso arrives to block the attack.

Plus the whole " this is all her fault" speech when Renoir and painted Alicia talk to Maelle in the nightmare.
Aline blames her for everything that happend so far, so thats why she sees her as an enemy.

Now you really can't. You can't kill Maelle, all you can do is get her to remember her other life. Maelle is immortal in the canvas. Maelle are the memories, memories don't evaporate when you strike her down.
Striking her down = get's her marble back = another painter to deal with. How dumb is that, really? Another painter that also wants YOU dead with all she has because of Gustave. Even if they blame her, they are not stupid.

[Genosse Kommissar]

Originally posted by Xan84:

Why would he want that? Her fake friends means the canvas, painted Renoir also wanted the canvas, not to have it destroyed. That is, unless I got it wrong what you mean by fake friends.

I must admit I did not understand this particular part of the story myself.
I have a hard time to distinguish between painted Renoir and the real one?

Everything I know about the story comes from other people playing it on Twitch and Youtube.

Right now I am downloading it myself.

But if the painted Renoir really wanted to safe Aline, well perhaps he did not really care if Maelle sides with him or not. He was immortal and Alicia/Maelle was not at full strenght anyways.

Right after killing Gustave he seems to try to strike Maelle down next, only to be stopped by Verso.

He cared for the Painted version of Alicia far more than for the real one, knowing that killing the real one will simply kick her out of the canvas.

I dont know

[Widgit]

Originally posted by Xan84:

His goal is to preserve his family, having a painter on his side and not only the mother would help him achieve that. Obviously. Expections would also be on his side if the truth came out.
Again, makes no sense.

It makes sense in the context that he's also a twisted version of himself, cares about nothing but family, and has gone fully scorched earth on everything else by this point. It also makes sense if the plan was to isolate Maelle and have her memory restored, which to me is what it looks like he was trying to do. When that didn't work, he was prepared to remove her from the canvas as well. She would've been a good ally, but oh well.

[Xan84]

Originally posted by Genosse Kommissar:

Originally posted by Xan84:

Why would he want that? Her fake friends means the canvas, painted Renoir also wanted the canvas, not to have it destroyed. That is, unless I got it wrong what you mean by fake friends.

I must admit I did not understand this particular part of the story myself.
I have a hard time to distinguish between painted Renoir and the real one?

Everything I know about the story comes from other people playing it on Twitch and Youtube.

Right now I am downloading it myself.

But if the painted Renoir really wanted to safe Aline, well perhaps he did not really care if Maelle sides with him or noot. He was immortal and Alicia/Maelle was not a full strenght anyways.

Right after killing Gustave he seems to try to strike Maelle down next, only to be stopped by Verso.

He cared for the Painted version of Alicia far more than for the real one, knowing that killing the real one will simply kick her out of the canvas.

I dont know

Painted Renoir is working for the wife, the one that tries to protect this world. The moment she actually get's her powers back(remembers who she is, later on), she is at full power and can strike them down even if they are immortal. The wife made painter Renoir, the real one is stuck and can't do many things himself.

Originally posted by Widgit:

Originally posted by Xan84:

His goal is to preserve his family, having a painter on his side and not only the mother would help him achieve that. Obviously. Expections would also be on his side if the truth came out.
Again, makes no sense.

It makes sense in the context that he's also a twisted version of himself, cares about nothing but family, and has gone fully scorched earth on everything else by this point. It also makes sense if the plan was to isolate Maelle and have her memory restored, which to me is what it looks like he was trying to do. When that didn't work, he was prepared to remove her from the canvas as well. She would've been a good ally, but oh well.

Yes, that is some of it and it makes little to no sense. His family would be in insane danger IF she is against them and she get's his mind back. After the last Gomage she returns with all her memories and power. So striking her down after making her a mortal enemy by killing Gustave is quite dumb. Gustave would be another ace in HIS pocket to have her choose the canvas over the real world.

[Widgit]

Originally posted by Xan84:

Painted Renoir is working for the wife, the one that tries to protect this world. The moment she actually get's her powers back(remembers who she is, later on), she is at full power and can strike them down even if they are immortal. The wife made painter Renoir, the real one is stuck and can't do many things himself.

He's not working for the wife, but his interests align with hers. She created him in the image of her husband but just in the way she views him from her grief. As Verso proves at the end of the game, he and Renoir both have total agency over themselves. Renoir isn't a cartoon villain reporting to The Paintress.

Originally posted by Xan84:

Yes, that is some of it and it makes little to no sense. His family would be in insane danger IF she is against them and she get's his mind back. After the last Gomage she returns with all her memories and power. So striking her down after making her a mortal enemy by killing Gustave is quite dumb. Gustave would be another ace in HIS pocket to have her choose the canvas over the real world.

He was still pleading with her to understand him even when he raised his weapon to strike. It seems clear to me he was going to attempt to argue his case once her memories returned, probably wanting to align her with him.

[Genosse Kommissar]

Originally posted by Widgit:

She would've been a good ally, but oh well.

But he did not want his painted daughter to see Maelle/Alicia.
He probably never wanted them to meet in the first place but Alicia went into the Canvas.

Alsoo him going scorched earth makes sense in the way that both Renoir versions do this, but one is real and does it to erase the canvas, the other one does it to save it.

By that point it is not entirely clear that Maelle/Alicia would agree to preserve the canvas.
For all the knew she might have sided with her father to save her mother.