Her ending was nearly perfect (Spoilers)

[Ratsplat]

Maybe getting ahead of myself here, but outside of the strangeness surrounding Verso and Maelle's eyes that all came out of nowhere, I am currently thinking that her ending was nearly perfect. Now, this is based on just the writing we received, assuming that Act 3's writing was entirely intentional and not rushed one bit. Perhaos we're all missing that one key aspect for Verso being the way he is. Below is from a post I made elsewhere.

"My latest thoughts was that both endings were nearly flawless for what they are. While both would have been better if the writing team was given more time or what have you, the Maelle one with her eyes and Verso's behavior made the least sense of all.

Many argue that a lot was 'wrong' with her ending, like that she is just controlling everyone or she just made copies of people. And when you go with that idea, then you would think her controlling or being mean to Verso makes sense. The reason that I believe her ending is perfect outside of Verso is that if she really was just controlling and repainting everyone, then why were there still tons of flaws?

For one, Gustave is still missing one arm, either making another prosthetic or they dug up his old one to give back to him. If the world is saved, there'd be no reason to give it back to him if she were to make an idealized copy of him. Who are they gonna fight (the parents I suppose, if they returned...)? And so, I believe it is the actual Gustave. Wouldn't a 'bad' Maelle make him perfect?

Then there's the city and world themselves. The fracture was still in the world, and the city was still crumbling apart. If the real Verso can make the entire world, and Aline Lumiere itself (and more), Maelle would have surely begun making renovations of everything. It could be that she hasn't made it to that yet, or she doesn't want to cheat and make everything perfect.

There's also the lack of other, dead, past expeditioners in the ending. All you really see are civilians. And how did they all die? They were gommaged, leaving their Chroma pure and able to be reused once she prevailed. The exact thing that allowed her to bring Sciel and Lune back.

Other things of note are that Lune's parents haven't returned (killed by Nevrons), Sciel's child isn't in their lap (unless you get really crazy and say she placed the Chroma back into Sciel's womb), the orphans don't have their parents (all killed by Nevrons.)"

[Ogami]

Maelle did what she said would do, restore Lumire and bring back the people that died.
And then just lives with them as a "normal" person in Lumire.
So far so good. The "dark" aspect of that is Verso.
Verso wants to die. Verso ALWAYS wanted to die. He does not want to be immortal and he made that very clear. He also made it clear to Maelle that he does not want to be part of this "new" Lumire she is creating and that she should erase him.

Maelle refuses to do so and thinks just taking away his immortality and letting him grow old would be enough. But Verso in the end is clearly unhappy sitting at the piano and only starts playing after Maelle forces him to do so with her powers.

So yeah, good ending for the continued existence of the world of Lumire, not a healthy ending for Maelle but still her choice. But pretty bad ending for Verso overall, forced into a existence he does not want and still unable to die because Maelle does not want him to.

I see why many people consider it the "bad" ending but i also prefer it to the Verso one.
Mainly because i cared way more about the wellbeing of the people in this "created" world then the family drama in the "real" world.

[Ratsplat]

Originally posted by Ogami:

Maelle did what she said would do, restore Lumire and bring back the people that died.
And then just lives with them as a "normal" person in Lumire.
So far so good. The "dark" aspect of that is Verso.
Verso wants to die. Verso ALWAYS wanted to die. He does not want to be immortal and he made that very clear. He also made it clear to Maelle that he does not want to be part of this "new" Lumire she is creating and that she should erase him.

Maelle refuses to do so and thinks just taking away his immortality and letting him grow old would be enough. But Verso in the end is clearly unhappy sitting at the piano and only starts playing after Maelle forces him to do so with her powers.

So yeah, good ending for the continued existence of the world of Lumire, not a healthy ending for Maelle but still her choice. But pretty bad ending for Verso overall, forced into a existence he does not want and still unable to die because Maelle does not want him to.

I see why many people consider it the "bad" ending but i also prefer it to the Verso one.
Mainly i care more about the people of this created world then the family drama in the "real" world.

I want to personally go back through the game and see if his hesitation and tear has anything to do with music. There was a scene earlier on talking about wanting to just play the piano at the concert hall once everything was done. If her eyes hadn't done their thing it could be said that he finally found a new reason to live, his passion for music. And I can admit this is certainly a big stretch.

And so, that leaves her painter eyes. They make much less sense than whatever Verso is dealing with and going through. They say you should show not tell, but her eyes almost feel like a tell instead of showing. If they weren't added, I think people could still understand that Verso didn't want to be there. Just a whole 'you chose... poorly.'

[Evilsod]

I never read the hesitation at the piano as Maelle forcing him to do anything.

Same with her eyes at the end, my understanding was that it was showing she was doing exactly what she told Renoir she wasn't going to do, and that which Verso knew she would, which was to stay in the canvas until it killed her.
I assume the state of Aline and Renoir is because of the same effect as they've been in the world for way too long, and that was where Maelle was heading, only faster because she's not as strong a paintress.

[Ogami]

Originally posted by Evilsod:

I never read the hesitation at the piano as Maelle forcing him to do anything.

Same with her eyes at the end, my understanding was that it was showing she was doing exactly what she told Renoir she wasn't going to do, and that which Verso knew she would, which was to stay in the canvas until it killed her.
I assume the state of Aline and Renoir is because of the same effect as they've been in the world for way too long, and that was where Maelle was heading, only faster because she's not as strong a paintress.

Also possible. But him hesitating to start playing and the stinger soundeffect with her creepy smile and the painter power eyes seems to indicate some form of forced coersion.
Maybe not making him play at that point but he clearly does not have the free will to do what he wants (dying) because Maelle wont let him. She wants that life with her brother that the fire stole from her, regardless what he wants.

Also, fun fact, Clea had the same eyes when you encounter her for the first time in the flashback after act 2. And that was the real world.
So i interpret the "painted eyes" as them currently using their power to manipulate something in the canvas. So its not a sign of decay but using their power.

[Shin Happens]

I still strongly feel that Maelle not gommaging Verso after showing mercy towards Painted Alicia not long before (if we assume all the optional Act 3 content is done before the final mission) is entirely out of character.

Why would she grant mercy to her painted alter ego who does not want to live like this anymore, with her painted family (and Aline) mostly gone and a painted brother who abandoned everyone ages ago and also forced to live in her disfigured form, and as we know from the real world, Alicia there lives in constant pain, every breath is painful, so Maelle shows mercy to her "sister" but then refuses the same mercy to her painted brother who literally begs her to end him????? Ending painted Verso would never affect splinter Verso who sustains the canvas.

This feels entirely wrong, forced and contrived, just so the team could have its two downer endings.

But as far as endings go, the Maelle ending is certainly the better outcome. Lumière gets to live again. Renoir has his wife back, Aline never cared for Alicia post the fire anyway and blamed her for all of it, to the point she painted Alicia in the canvas in her disfigured form as some kind of punishment. Clea does not care about her sister at all either and is rather very pre-occupied with the writers conflict, she seems very cool, very detached. That only leaves Renoir who cares about Alicia, as we are told. But still, Alicia would have a life of nothing in the real world. A sister who does not care, a mother who resents her, disfigured, mute, no one will ever love her or marry her or have a family with her, she'll be a spinster forever... and in constant pain. Why would ANYONE want to return to that life willingly?

Only Maelle is lost in the canvas now, like her mom. And will probably sooner rather than later lose herself completely and may go a bit crazy. Which does not bode well... but leaves at least the door open for a sequel. Maybe Gustave, Lune, Sciel etc can still reach Maelle and convince her to please, please leave the canvas for all of their sake, hers and Lumière's. In theory at least.

Also, one has to wonder why Renoir is not in the canvas, trying to get his daughter out, Clea knows where the canvas is hidden. So he probably accepted her decision, even if he does not like it, but when the thinks about it all he too has to realise that nothing really is waiting for Alicia in the real world. Nothing but pain and loneliness, that is.

[Ratsplat]

Originally posted by Shin Happens:

Also, one has to wonder why Renoir is not in the canvas, trying to get his daughter out, Clea knows where the canvas is hidden. So he probably accepted her decision, even if he does not like it, but when the thinks about it all he too has to realise that nothing really is waiting for Alicia in the real world. Nothing but pain and loneliness, that is.

Aline knows where it is located as well, seeing as she was able to return rather quickly. (Or perhaps she was never truly ousted until the very end.)

Also, this brings up one other consideration. If Aline knows where the painting is now located, what is stopping her from eventually coming right back inside once she's rested some. Alicia can't stop her from reentering, and unless Aline finally starts to care about Alicia for once (might blame her, but the idea of losing her daughter in a painting may actually knock some sense into her for once.), she may react very very badly once she sees almost nothing remains of her painted family. Could be very bad...

[alt]

although i am not completely happy with how it ended, i do love the game for what it is

are there flaws? yes. does it matter to me? no.

the game got us not only talking but thinking about more complex decisions that would be impossible for anyone to make.

visceral reactions last the longest, and this game gives you just that.

[Ogami]

My problem with the Verso ending ( apart from the whole genocide angle) is that Verso is a lying piece of ♥♥♥♥.
He did nothing but lie to Maelle and everyone the entire game.
He has ONE goal and one goal only, he wants to die.
And the ONLY reason he fights Maelle at the end is because her being in control of the Canvas will make it impossible.
All those arguments " oh its not good for you, you have to face reality bla bla"
All lies again. He does not give a ♥♥♥♥ about real Maelle, he only cared about painted Alicia.

If you side with Maelle he does not beg her to leave or anything, he begs her to kill him because that is the only thing he wants.
I honestly see Verso as maybe the biggest villain of the game, maipulating people left and right to get what he wants.
Plus revelations like he did let Gustave die on purpose because it would make it easier to manipulate the party afterwards.
He only comes out with the truth anytime it gets revealed anyway and people confront him, never on his own.

Dont get me wrong he is a fascinating and well written character but he is not a good person.

[TheLastDesperado]

Originally posted by Ogami:

Originally posted by Evilsod:

I never read the hesitation at the piano as Maelle forcing him to do anything.

Same with her eyes at the end, my understanding was that it was showing she was doing exactly what she told Renoir she wasn't going to do, and that which Verso knew she would, which was to stay in the canvas until it killed her.
I assume the state of Aline and Renoir is because of the same effect as they've been in the world for way too long, and that was where Maelle was heading, only faster because she's not as strong a paintress.

Also possible. But him hesitating to start playing and the stinger soundeffect with her creepy smile and the painter power eyes seems to indicate some form of forced coersion.
Maybe not making him play at that point but he clearly does not have the free will to do what he wants (dying) because Maelle wont let him. She wants that life with her brother that the fire stole from her, regardless what he wants.

Also, fun fact, Clea had the same eyes when you encounter her for the first time in the flashback after act 2. And that was the real world.
So i interpret the "painted eyes" as them currently using their power to manipulate something in the canvas. So its not a sign of decay but using their power.

I still don't read that as Maelle using her powers to force Verso to play.

The painted eyes were indeed them using their powers, and Verso having the knowledge of his real self knows that this is what she must currently look like on the outside. It's him having a vision of real world Alicia, knowing that she is dying. He's hesitating because he knows this canvas is making her happy, but it will be the end of her and is she truly living?

I do agree that Maelle isn't giving what Verso what he wants though. Or, she's at least giving him what he wants in a roundabout way, dying, but of old age. It's entirely selfish of her, and that is why I think she has that odd smile because she knows all this deep down. She is not moving past her grief.

[IwanttohavtheDamBurger]

Originally posted by Ogami:

My problem with the Verso ending ( apart from the whole genocide angle) is that Verso is a lying piece of ♥♥♥♥.
He did nothing but lie to Maelle and everyone the entire game.
He has ONE goal and one goal only, he wants to die.
And the ONLY reason he fights Maelle at the end is because her being in control of the Canvas will make it impossible.
All those arguments " oh its not good for you, you have to face reality bla bla"
All lies again. He does not give a ♥♥♥♥ about real Maelle, he only cared about painted Alicia.

If you side with Maelle he does not beg her to leave or anything, he begs her to kill him because that is the only thing he wants.
I honestly see Verso as maybe the biggest villain of the game, maipulating people left and right to get what he wants.
Plus revelations like he did let Gustave die on purpose because it would make it easier to manipulate the party afterwards.
He only comes out with the truth anytime it gets revealed anyway and people confront him, never on his own.

Dont get me wrong he is a fascinating and well written character but he is not a good person.

isnt it because he doesnt want his real sister and real mother to live their whole life in depression/grief, thats what the real verso would have wanted and aline created this verso in his image

[Ninjelon]

Is Maelles Ending really the better one? Clea and Renoir can allways come back and force her out of the Canvas. Especially Clea was stated to be the strongest paintres in the family. I doubt Maelle has any chance against Clea. Lumiere is restored for a short period of time but its very, very short lived.

Also until the final moment, Verso was on Maelles side. He changed his mind when Aline came back. (Maelle doesnt seem to very talented to hide stuff xD I doubt she got that information from Clea, she wanted her out of the canvas as well) That was the moment that made clear that this world will always be slaves of the descendre family. Lumiere only would have a chance all family members leave the canvas and never return. But Aline and Maelle are so addicted to that world and couldnt let go.

[Ogami]

Originally posted by Ninjelon:

Is Maelles Ending really the better one? Clea and Renoir can allways come back and force her out of the Canvas. Especially Clea was stated to be the strongest paintres in the family. I doubt Maelle has any chance against Clea. Lumiere is restored for a short period of time but its very, very short lived.

Dont really agree with that. Even with Clea´s help Renoir was not able to get his wife out of the Canvas. You literally have to defeat the person in that world and Maelle already defeated Renoir and also Clea if you played the Flying Mansion side quest in act 3.
She is incredible powerful in the end in that canvas, especially since she controls the part of the soul of young Verso that keeps the canvas going. ( thats the black haired boy with her in the ending).
She has full power over everything in the canvas world now and i doubt that even Renoir, Aline and Clea combined could remove her against her will.
And the only other option, destroying the canvas would kill Alicia/Maelle in the real world just the same as staying in the canvas for too long.

Neither of the endings are really "good", they both have their own set of bitter consequences.

[TheLastDesperado]

Originally posted by Ogami:

Originally posted by Ninjelon:

Is Maelles Ending really the better one? Clea and Renoir can allways come back and force her out of the Canvas. Especially Clea was stated to be the strongest paintres in the family. I doubt Maelle has any chance against Clea. Lumiere is restored for a short period of time but its very, very short lived.

Dont really agree with that. Even with Clea´s help Renoir was not able to get his wife out of the Canvas. You literally have to defeat the person in that world and Maelle already defeated Renoir and also Clea if you played the Flying Mansion side quest in act 3.
She is incredible powerful in the end in that canvas, especially since she controls the part of the soul of young Verso that keeps the canvas going. ( thats the black haired boy with her in the ending).
She has full power over everything in the canvas world now and i doubt that even Renoir, Aline and Clea combined could remove her against her will.
And the only other option, destroying the canvas would kill Alicia/Maelle in the real world just the same as staying in the canvas for too long.

Neither of the endings are really "good", they both have their own set of bitter consequences.

Technically that's Painted Clea in the Flying Manor.

The real Clea is any time you see the fading woman, like in the Endless Tower and the Forgotten Battlefield.

So there is still a possibility Clea could have the power to bring Maelle/Alicia out, seeing as how we're told she's a prodigy, but it seems like she's far too busy in the real world and seems indifferent, or even callous, to her sister.

[Nryrony]

Option 1 is living in a fantasy, ignoring reality, and even weakening their own side within the writer/painter meta-conflict.

Option 2 is accepting reality, which is harsh—being crippled and abandoning your (imaginary?) friends.

Well, I never liked that kind of metaphorical thinking, even if I believe that’s the intended message.

So I chose to imagine the following:
Maelle, in a way, sacrifices herself for her friends by choosing to maintain the "illusion." Deep down, she knows she might end up like her mother and that eventually this will all end. But until then, her friends are safe. Even if they’re not "real" by any standard definition, they are—at least within that canvas.

[Ogami]

Honestly the best ending would have been to convince Maelle/Alicia to leave the canvas and never to return but in exchange Renoir would promise to keep the world in it alive.
And Verso gets his wish of being "unpainted".

That would have been a good compromise for everything, Maelle/Alicia would need to face reality but with the knowledge her friends from Lumire get to live their lifes in peace.
The family can move on and fake Verso is laid to rest.

But i guess this would have been too "perfect" of an ending.