[Spoilers] About plot and endings

[Nonomori]

Really love this game graphically and stylistically, way ahead of everything that came out this year. But the plot and especially endings left a sore mark. Like, part 1 and beginning of part 2 were amazing, the game really sold you off the idea of a dying world on the verge of extinction because of some big evil goddess, countless expeditions who were sent to thwart her but failed, all that stuff. Really felt like time is tickling and you're running late.

But then... you get the grand reveal, that Lumiere and all the people in the world are fake, an illusion. It's just a picture some family of weirdos painted to have fun (or to escape reality), and now, live with it. So, all the original Lumiere character progression, all the bonding you developed, everything went to the bin because of that. But yeah, fine. We are fake, but so what? These are still living, breathing people whom I love and I will fight for them to the death!

And then we get to the endings. Like, what the actual f? You have one, seemingly "good" ending, where you side with Verso, destroy the painting alongside with Lumiere and all the people in the world, all the people and characters you fell in love with, just so that stupid family I couldn't care less about can just... move on, to the "brighter" future?

Or the second ending, where you side with Maelle, spank Verso and save the painting. The Lumiere and all its people who have died in all previous expedition lives on, but you get that eerie "fake" feeling, like its all forced and strained, and Verso is doomed to have his soul forever trapped in this limbo world.

This brings the question. WHY ON EARTH DID YOU SPEND SO MUCH TIME DEVELOPING ALL THE CHARACTERS, THEIR STORYLINES, ALL THAT STUFF TO MAKE US BOND WITH THEM... and then make it so, everything you do, everything they've done, worth NOTHING in the end.

It didn't feel like an actual game after that, felt like I'm watching a movie with a split ending, none of the endings were good and you just get to choose one. Choice without a choice, in an RPG game. I really don't know how I feel about it all. I've picked Maelle ending just because I really loved the original characters, and I didn't want to commit an actual genocide, but still felt like endings are so lackluster in this otherwise amazing game.

[goodbye_bonito]

WHY ON EARTH DID YOU SPEND SO MUCH TIME DEVELOPING ALL THE CHARACTERS, THEIR STORYLINES, ALL THAT STUFF TO MAKE US BOND WITH THEM... and then make it so, everything you do, everything they've done, worth NOTHING in the end.

Of how much irony in this. Because it's central theme of this whole damn story

[a passerby]

The devs wanted a sombre, melancholic ending, which makes sense given the overall tone of the game. But I absolutely agree that the character development was all for naught.

Originally posted by goodbye_bonito:

Of how much irony in this. Because it's central theme of this whole damn story

No it isn't. "When one falls, we continue". That is literally said right from the get go. And if it all meant nothing, then the endings would make even less sense.

[Crimsomrider]

It feels like an emotional trap because the story is heavily leaning on making a point about grief/escapism, using dirty tricks to make the player deeply invested into its story, world and characters in order to truly make them care. So that by the time the player ultimately gets presented the difficult choice at the finale, they end up in the same exact situation as Maelle - who loves Lumiere and is too emotionally invested to see it gone.

Unfortunately it does this meta-storytelling by pushing its characters completely aside in order to educate, rather than continuing to grow the characters themselves to properly conclude the story in a satisfying manner that respects the journey thus far and still makes the exact same point. Which is why the endings are just unsatisfying melancholic cliffhangers that lead nowhere really, with no character growth on either side.

It is a bold story, but its point was obvious from the get-go of ACT III and unfortunately never elevated the story, its characters nor its stakes past trying to make a point. Regardless I felt the same way. The finale was really unsatisfying by using such a basic plot for its conclusion and pushing its characters completely aside, so just went with Maelle so it sucks less.

"The future of Lumiere is far more important than any individual life." - Lune

[goodbye_bonito]

Originally posted by a passerby:

The devs wanted a sombre, melancholic ending, which makes sense given the overall tone of the game. But I absolutely agree that the character development was all for naught.

Originally posted by goodbye_bonito:

Of how much irony in this. Because it's central theme of this whole damn story

No it isn't. "When one falls, we continue". That is literally said right from the get go. And if it all meant nothing, then the endings would make even less sense.

You just told me that the whole game went right past your head. I guess that's fair, basic comprehensive skills are hard for young people nowodays

[a passerby]

Originally posted by goodbye_bonito:

You just told me that the whole game went right past your head. I guess that's fair, basic comprehensive skills are hard for young people nowodays

So in a nutshell, you don't know how to use your words to express anything coherent. Even taking the time to edit your reply, you couldn't even manage to spell "nowadays" right. Good one, my illiterate chump 😂

[Nonomori]

Originally posted by Crimsomrider:

It feels that way because the story is heavily leaning on making a point about grief/escapism, using dirty tricks to make the player emotionally deeply attached to its story, world and characters in order to truly make the player care. So that by the time the player ultimately gets presented the difficult choice at the finale, they end up in the same exact situation as Maelle - who loves Lumiere and is too emotionally invested to see it gone.

Unfortunately it does this meta-storytelling by pushing its characters completely aside in order to educate, rather than using the characters themselves to grow the story further and end it in a proper satisfying manner that respects the journey thus far and still makes the exact same point. Which is why the endings are just unsatisfying melancholic cliffhangers that lead nowhere really, with no character growth on either side.

It is a bold story, but it's point was obvious from the get-go of ACT III and unfortunately never elevated the story nor its stakes past trying to make a point. Regardless I felt the same way. The finale was really unsatisfying by using such a basic plot for its conclusion and pushing its characters completely aside, so just went with Maelle so it sucks less.

"The future of Lumiere is far more important than any individual life." - Lune

Ultimately how I feel about it, yeah. Even Maelle and Verso seemed like they never evolved at all.

[Aradner]

I am honestly so glad to see more posts like this. So many people got gaslit that this is actually a good story about Maelle, and that shafting 80% of the characters you grew to like is okay. I ofcourse 100% agree with you

[Buddy]

I think both endings were pretty good. They don't "shaft the characters aside" The entire point of getting them connected to you is so they can thematically deliver a harder and sadder blow to convey the themes, if you didn't care about the characters than you wouldn't feel anything. It's the point lol.

[sleepiest dhampir]

the whole point is that neither of the endings are the "good" ending. sometimes stories make you feel this way, and that's okay. at least you're aware of it and it's not just some black and white narrative storytelling to you. that in itself is a good thing, that you're able to think deeply about it. most people are just going to say "bad story, didn't like it, wasn't satisfied" which is lol valid but you have plenty of other games to play that do satisfy you, go play those

[Aradner]

Originally posted by sleepiest dhampir:

the whole point is that neither of the endings are the "good" ending. sometimes stories make you feel this way, and that's okay. at least you're aware of it and it's not just some black and white narrative storytelling to you. that in itself is a good thing, that you're able to think deeply about it. most people are just going to say "bad story, didn't like it, wasn't satisfied" which is lol valid but you have plenty of other games to play that do satisfy you, go play those

Dude, the problem isn't that none of the endings are good endings, the problem is that none of the endings are satisfying endings. I appreciate the story that can make me feel conflicted or even sad, this game made me feel "i guess..." by the end. All characters that gave me motivation to play this story, those being the inhabitants of Lumiere, just straight up arent mentioned. Lune and Sciel don't even have spoken lines after the final boss ffs, they are just deemed insignificant by context, it was horribly anticlimactic. There is a very good reason "it was all a dream"-esque endings are a frowned upon cliche...

[Ogami]

Your first experience with "french" storytelling? They French love their downer and bittersweet tragic story endings. I loved both of them but prefer the Maelle one a bit more.
Simply because i think the people of Lumire are just as much worth then then ones in the real world. And they deserve to live just as much.
Maelle will go insane over time and die in the painting but at least the inhabitants get to live on.

[DelSapri]

One point I always notice people overlook is how much Renoir reinforces, and Maelle demonstrates, that painting is intoxicating, like a drug in fact. You can see it in Renoir's face when he accepts Maelle's decision, how much he knows it won't work, how much he wants to delude himself and believe in her... but his daughter is addicted, too absorbed in painting to choose anything else.
Another relevant point is to think about how real those people are. I know that to us who are playing they sound real, but it's like the characters in a book, if well written they sound real to us, companions on a journey...and then the book ends, the story ends, we need to close it.
And in the end, it's Maelle who never manages to make that compromise, to accept that she needs to leave, that it's destroying her, leaving Verso with the only option, which is perhaps the hardest.
Note that from this point on, Renoir is already out of the picture, already out of the story, tragically accepting what is to come. It's Maelle, who, intoxicated by the painting, can't help but want to live in this disillusionment rather than face real life.
Yes, it's a bittersweet ending, but it brings home the essence of reflection on mourning, on how “alive” these artificial characters are, and how much one can let oneself be intoxicated by a life of illusions.

[Shin Happens]

One can easily create arguments that that say the final rug pull is one rug pull too many, i.e. the endings.

It's usually not good storytelling when for 90+% your story is about ONE thing only for it (the author) to tell you "Nah, I was just kidding, it's actually about THAT" in the final 10%, IF you also invalidate all that came before.

Gustave, Sophie, their hopes, dreams, ambitions, goals and everything? Pointless.
Lune and Sciel? Irrelevant.
All that matters now: if one suicidial clinically depressed sociopath can have it it his way, or if the girl you got to know all throughout the story suddenly completely changes her character and becomes a delusional quasi goddess.

You don't do that.

The two endings we have are not necessarily "terrible", what makes them terrible is the utter lack of an ending that is not about the family. When 90% of the game is NOT about the family but mostly about saving Lumiere.

Funny enough, YT, yesterday, recommended a video to me about the 9 worst endings a story can have, this was advice for aspiring novelists. And yeah, the kind of ending Clair Obscure has was one of them.

If you make people invest in your characters there'd better be some emotional payoff, not complete sidelining of said characters to the point of utter irrelevance. The game IS certainly about the Dessendre family, but not exclusively so, it is also about Lumiere, this is a fact, no one can deny it. 90% of the story is all about "how do we save Lumiere". Again, the two endings we get are not the real issue, the issue is that there is ONLY these two endings.

If they really make a movie based on that game I truly wonder how much they will rewrite here so audiences will actually want to see it.

[sleepiest dhampir]

Originally posted by Aradner:

none of the endings are satisfying endings.

the point is right there. LOL. this game is designed to generate a lot of discussion about the endings and look at what it's doing. creating threads like these hahaha :)

[Nonomori]

Originally posted by sleepiest dhampir:

the whole point is that neither of the endings are the "good" ending. sometimes stories make you feel this way, and that's okay. at least you're aware of it and it's not just some black and white narrative storytelling to you. that in itself is a good thing, that you're able to think deeply about it. most people are just going to say "bad story, didn't like it, wasn't satisfied" which is lol valid but you have plenty of other games to play that do satisfy you, go play those

I appreciate that the devs wanted to write emotionally complex endings instead of the traditional golden "everyone wins" ending, but it feels like the character development leading up to Act III was completely abandoned.

When Alicia brought back Lune and Sciel after Verso's deception, Verso apologized to them, promised them the truth, and said he would fight to bring back the residents of Lumiere. His conversations with everyone also made it seem that he was truly remorseful and regretful of his actions. And then we have Alicia, who scolded Verso for robbing the painted folk of their agency when he deceived them into erasure. In her relationship side-quest, she apologised to Verso for not giving him the opportunity to say goodbye to Painted Alicia before she got erased. She acknowledged that erasing Painted Alicia was what Painted Alicia wanted, but also understood that she shouldn't have deprived Verso the opportunity to say goodbye. I saw this as a moment of maturity for her.

And then we have the two endings, which somehow abandons everything I mentioned and makes both choices rather selfish at their core.

In Verso's ending, Verso opts to betray everyone once again, and it seems his primary motivation for erasure was his severe depression for having lived so long with memories he knows does not really belong to him.
It looked like the sight of Aline breaking down outside the canvas was what set him off at first, but the alternative ending dialogue with Alicia indicated that he really just wanted to die. And even if his motivation is up for debate, what cannot be questioned is how he also allowed Lune, Sciel, Esquie, and Monoco to all be erased at the same time.

We see in the epilogue that the Dessandre family seems to be healing, which is the dev's consolation prize to us, even though that was never really Verso's motivation. And why would it be, when he knows he's just the painted version of the actual Verso?