(Spoilers) If the end doesn't show that they are, then nothing will

[Ratsplat]

Bad habit of making new threads, but topics can easily get buried elsewhere.

One major topic has been whether the world is real or not, and whether they are living or not. And there's tons of evidence showing that they are, what with looking and acting completely alive.

But out of everything, I believe the very end by itself (even if you dislike the endings) shows that the world, and the people especially, are very much real. Would a truly fake Verso want to disappear? Want to save Maelle? How about Lune. Would a fake Lune burn a hole through Verso's soul (who, would also be fake) with her undying glare after being betrayed to the very end? Do fake things act as real as possible even while no painters are nearby?

If anything, I feel this somewhat makes the one ending at the very least a bit more acceptable. But also that much more of a tragedy. One moment you choose to save Maelle since everything is just fantasy land, but then you realize the kind of choice you just made...

[babobaka]

I am getting bit concerned that people are putting more weight to imaginary world than actual reality.

This should be fairly clear cut, that reality is what is important and sentimental fantasy imaginary world is not. However, I am seeing a lot of post advocating for the fake world.

It's like they will be sad to see Minecraft NPC dying, and if some Minecraft server gets close, they will treat it like end of the world, and evil action for the person who decided to close the server.

How little weight people are giving to the actual reality within the story world, is alarming to me.

[Ratsplat]

Originally posted by babobaka:

I am getting bit concerned that people are putting more weight to imaginary world than actual reality.

This should be fairly clear cut, that reality is what is important and sentimental fantasy imaginary world is not. However, I am seeing a lot of post advocating for the fake world.

It's like they will be sad to see Minecraft NPC dying, and if some Minecraft server gets close, they will treat it like end of the world, and evil action for the person who decided to close the server.

How little weight people are giving to the actual reality within the story world, is alarming to me.

And that's the problem with it being left up in the air. There may be many believing and wanting the world to be real, but there's also many that are entirely adamant about it being completely fake and nothing will change their minds. For me, it doesn't matter which it is in reality if ever confirmed. But as it stands currently, it being more real than fake seems the likeliest conclusion.

[Prowl]

In regards to Verso's ending I don't even think that it truly is the end for the canvas characters. As long as Maelle (A painter) can get access to another canvas, or create one (Renoir mentioned he made loads) then she can create them again.

Would they be exactly the same? I couldn't say. They would be as she remembered them or willed them to be. Point is they can easily return.

[Lucathegreat]

tbh they felt like East Europe/Slav endings where the happiest one usually involves everyone dying or something.

Can't quite say which one is the saddest, Maelle = she has no future in the real world so she chose to live with the other characters inside the painting, that also get a chance to live knowing the canvas won't be torn anymore; Verso = Maelle returns to her doomed life and all characters brought to life by real-Verso gets erased from existence because Renoir wanted so (and to prevent the mother to go back in again). But does he have the right to decide that Lune & co. don't deserve to live anymore, just because they were created by his son?
The optimal outcome would be leaving the canvas so everyone could live free, but yeah they stated the mother would've found it again even if they hid it (no other solution...?)

[Ratsplat]

Originally posted by Prowl:

In regards to Verso's ending I don't even think that it truly is the end for the canvas characters. As long as Maelle (A painter) can get access to another canvas, or create one (Renoir mentioned he made loads) then she can create them again.

Would they be exactly the same? I couldn't say. They would be as she remembered them or willed them to be. Point is they can easily return.

I agree. If you watch enough TV, you learn that if you don't see something happen on screen, it either didn't happen or you're about to be fooled. Characters are not dead unless you saw it happen to them.

We have 0 proof right now that the canvas was in fact destroyed or what have you (but very likely due to Renoir's words.) At most, Sciel gommaged (though potentially for good due to her going through the portal), and Lune?

If there's ever a sequel or any sort of continuation with the same characters, I go off of the idea that even if a fragment of the canvas still exists in some form somewhere, then they can plot magic part of the cast back to life.

[Namdaets]

Originally posted by babobaka:

I am getting bit concerned that people are putting more weight to imaginary world than actual reality.

This should be fairly clear cut, that reality is what is important and sentimental fantasy imaginary world is not. However, I am seeing a lot of post advocating for the fake world.

It's like they will be sad to see Minecraft NPC dying, and if some Minecraft server gets close, they will treat it like end of the world, and evil action for the person who decided to close the server.

How little weight people are giving to the actual reality within the story world, is alarming to me.

It's alarming to me how quickly some people go from loving and empathizing with these characters who for all intents and purposes appear to be fully sapient life forms to suddenly being Andy dropping Woody in slow motion from Toy Story ("I don't want to play with you anymore....") the moment the plot twist reveals the world and everyone in it is painted. How do you know the "real world" Lumiere isn't a Canvas world itself? How do you know our real world isn't a Canvas, and Clair Obscur is a meta joke by the gods? 😂

[Ratsplat]

Originally posted by Namdaets:

Originally posted by babobaka:

I am getting bit concerned that people are putting more weight to imaginary world than actual reality.

This should be fairly clear cut, that reality is what is important and sentimental fantasy imaginary world is not. However, I am seeing a lot of post advocating for the fake world.

It's like they will be sad to see Minecraft NPC dying, and if some Minecraft server gets close, they will treat it like end of the world, and evil action for the person who decided to close the server.

How little weight people are giving to the actual reality within the story world, is alarming to me.

It's alarming to me how quickly some people go from loving and empathizing with these characters who for all intents and purposes appear to be fully sapient life forms to suddenly being Andy dropping Woody in slow motion from Toy Story ("I don't want to play with you anymore....") the moment the plot twist reveals the world and everyone in it is painted. How do you know the "real world" Lumiere isn't a Canvas world itself? How do you know our real world isn't a Canvas, and Clair Obscur is a meta joke by the gods? 😂

I currently blame blind fanboyism, especially due to the immense praise the game is getting. It's still pretty much my own game of the decade. But that doesn't mean people need to defend what took place in it to the ends of the earth. There's nothing wrong with believing it's all fake, or it's all real, but you do have to contend with the fact that nothing is currently concrete. If it's ever confirmed, then I'm fine with whichever way it goes.

[Prowl]

Originally posted by Namdaets:

Originally posted by babobaka:

I am getting bit concerned that people are putting more weight to imaginary world than actual reality.

This should be fairly clear cut, that reality is what is important and sentimental fantasy imaginary world is not. However, I am seeing a lot of post advocating for the fake world.

It's like they will be sad to see Minecraft NPC dying, and if some Minecraft server gets close, they will treat it like end of the world, and evil action for the person who decided to close the server.

How little weight people are giving to the actual reality within the story world, is alarming to me.

It's alarming to me how quickly some people go from loving and empathizing with these characters who for all intents and purposes appear to be fully sapient life forms to suddenly being Andy dropping Woody in slow motion from Toy Story ("I don't want to play with you anymore....") the moment the plot twist reveals the world and everyone in it is painted. How do you know the "real world" Lumiere isn't a Canvas world itself? How do you know our real world isn't a Canvas, and Clair Obscur is a meta joke by the gods? 😂

I think, therefore I am -Rene Descartes

[babobaka]

Originally posted by Ratsplat:

Originally posted by babobaka:

I am getting bit concerned that people are putting more weight to imaginary world than actual reality.

This should be fairly clear cut, that reality is what is important and sentimental fantasy imaginary world is not. However, I am seeing a lot of post advocating for the fake world.

It's like they will be sad to see Minecraft NPC dying, and if some Minecraft server gets close, they will treat it like end of the world, and evil action for the person who decided to close the server.

How little weight people are giving to the actual reality within the story world, is alarming to me.

And that's the problem with it being left up in the air. There may be many believing and wanting the world to be real, but there's also many that are entirely adamant about it being completely fake and nothing will change their minds. For me, it doesn't matter which it is in reality if ever confirmed. But as it stands currently, it being more real than fake seems the likeliest conclusion.

I think the game was fairly clear that the Canvas world is created by the painters.

Just think of it like this.

Let's say there's someone who is interested in modding for games, let's say Skyrim. He created couple of NPCs he imagined and put them in Skyrim, then died.

Then the mom just keeps playing her dead son's Skyrim modded world, because it is the only way she can "interact" with whatever remaining of her son's thoughts. Then she tried to give more "life" to it, and then added ChatGPT feature to NPCs, with one of the NPC is modeled based on text chat and whatever video record she had with her dead son, and added more complex logic to character script, so they are more life like, and she can "interact" with her dead son.

Then she uses VR headset, and just keeps playing that game. ignoring reality.

Then the dad want to try to snap his wife out of it, and tries to delete the mod file their son made.

And then the dad finds out his daughter is also just living in VR headset, because she got no friends in reaity.

This is pretty much what the story is, and the people are going "OMG, what about the NPCs? They are real life people too!"

I am bit alarmed how many people are making the father the villain and consider Alicia living and then dying early death in imaginary virtual world as a good thing, ignoring the importance of the reality.

[Ratsplat]

Likely a poor example, but everyone in Men In Black is fake because their world exists within a marble used in an alien's game.

[Namdaets]

@babobaka

You see the painted world's beings as literal NPC bots, but I and many others see them as fully sapient living beings created by magic (I've never seen a Skyrim NPC look and act like any of the characters in this story), which explains why many people are sympathetic to the painted world and its denizens and would pick the "save the world" option at the end.

[C1REX]

Originally posted by Namdaets:

@babobaka

You see the painted world's beings as literal NPC bots, but I and many others see them as fully sapient living beings created by magic (I've never seen a Skyrim NPC look and act like any of the characters in this story), which explains why many people are sympathetic to the painted world and its denizens and would pick the "save the world" option at the end.

I’ve thought the same but I think they are more like memories and feelings and not fully sentient. Like characters created inside “Inception”. They can also be easily repainted/reimagined like shown in Maelle’s ending.

[Lucyfar]

Adults move on, sometimes it hurts but you gotta do it.

Kids live in fantasy land, that's why Maelle wants to stay in the canvas instead of facing reality.

[Ratsplat]

Originally posted by Lucyfar:

Adults move on, sometimes it hurts but you gotta do it.

Kids live in fantasy land, that's why Maelle wants to stay in the canvas instead of facing reality.

True, but then there's Aline.

[babobaka]

Originally posted by Namdaets:

@babobaka

You see the painted world's beings as literal NPC bots, but I and many others see them as fully sapient living beings created by magic (I've never seen a Skyrim NPC look and act like any of the characters in this story), which explains why many people are sympathetic to the painted world and its denizens and would pick the "save the world" option at the end.

You literally see them remade again by Maelle, making them nothing more than just paintings.

It's like once ChatGPT becomes good enough to make them act well enough like this game, then you will consider them real as well?