Major plot hole (end game spoilers)

[SalemMcGee]

So, as it turns out, Alicia and Maëlle are the same person.
The rest of the cast are just figments of the imagination of the original painter (Verso) and those added by Aline & Renoir - none of them real.
The only real characters in the game until postgame are the curator (renoir), the paintress (Aline), and Maëlle (Alicia)
The Renoir you meet in the painting isn't real.
But Alicia - let's call her A when she's in her real form - can also be met several times throughout the game. This would be fine if Maëlle wasn't revealed to be Alicia at the end of the game, but it turns out Maëlle is Alicia who was hypnotized by Aline's painting.
So why are both Alicia and A in the painting??

[SalemMcGee]

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

Originally posted by SalemMcGee:

Maëlle isn't created by Aline, it's what Alicia creates by joining the canvas, which is why Aline is surprised when she meets Maëlle.

No, that's wrong. Aline created Maelle by painting over Alicia.

https://youtu.be/ogoXmla42_8?si=caeniDcG94LQx5WS

The video litterally proves my point..

[parent child bowl]

Originally posted by SalemMcGee:

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

No, that's wrong. Aline created Maelle by painting over Alicia.

https://youtu.be/ogoXmla42_8?si=caeniDcG94LQx5WS

The video litterally proves my point..

No, it doesn't. The video literally tells you that Alicia will be born as one of Aline's creations.

[SalemMcGee]

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

Originally posted by SalemMcGee:

The video litterally proves my point..

No, it doesn't. The video literally tells you that Alicia will be born as one of Aline's creations.

yes, because she lost control during the fall.
Aline is unaware of Maëlle's existence when she first meets her and thinks it's a trick by Renoir.
This entirely disproves your point.

[ZexxCrine]

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

Originally posted by ZexxCrine:

Eh by the time he does(if he does) everyone in the story will die of old age due to the time dilation. It’s debatable she will stay after that. It’s also debatable she will be still alive by the time it happens.

Verso’s death was super recent. Meanwhile at least 67 years passed in the canvas and it’s implied that much much longer passed as well.

However I would hardly call growing old and dying eternal suffering. For sake of argument I’d also believe that the people who inhabit the world would mostly choose to suffer through the events of the game again over oblivion. The only person who wants a definitive out is verso and he’s going to grow old and die.

He will. I don't understand how that is even a question. As soon as he recovers enough the cycle starts anew. It might at least be over a lot faster since Maelle isn't as good a painter as her father.

Why do you assume that people will grow old and die? Aline is following in the footsteps of her mother. She didn't even respect Verso's wish and forced him into a life he doesn't want. She only cares about herself.

Even if she were to let the current people die which is highly debatable, their descendents will suffer because of Aline's selfishness.

Unfortunately Alicia and Aline are too far gone to just stay away from the canvas as long as it exists.

I assume they will grow old and die because that was the compromise Maelle made in that ending.

“If you were able to grow old, would you find a reason to smile again?”

[parent child bowl]

Originally posted by SalemMcGee:

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

No, it doesn't. The video literally tells you that Alicia will be born as one of Aline's creations.

yes, because she lost control during the fall.
Aline is unaware of Maëlle's existence when she first meets her and thinks it's a trick by Renoir.
This entirely disproves your point.

I don't know what to tell you if you don't understand what is shown to you in that video. You are flatout wrong.

[Lambi]

Originally posted by SalemMcGee:

Originally posted by eRe4s3r:

The painting doesn't hypnotize you, it literally draws your soul in. Every "faceless" persona you meet is such a drawn in soul (either part or whole)

Alina painted Fake Verso and Burned Alicia, Fake Renoir and Fake Alina.
Maelle was painted because Alina didn't see her as real Alicia, and thought it was a trick by Renoir.
Renoir painted himself (once you free Alina from the Canvas, the Renoir you meet is the real one with his painted persona and his soul (the curator))
The world and the fantasy elements were painted by Verso as a child.
The world is maintained by the SOUL of Verso
The Nevrons were painted by Clea
The Axxons + Nevrons there were painted by Renoir

Maelle isn't painted by Aline, it's the real Alicia.
People say A is painted by Aline, but there's no reason for that to have happened.

Alicia was painted over by Aline to become Maelle. And the masked Alicia is a painted version of Alicia created by Maelle.

[АlphaWhelp]

Originally posted by Lambi:

Originally posted by SalemMcGee:

Maelle isn't painted by Aline, it's the real Alicia.
People say A is painted by Aline, but there's no reason for that to have happened.

Alicia was painted over by Aline to become Maelle. And the masked Alicia is a painted version of Alicia created by Maelle.

They tell you in game, in no uncertain terms, that painted Renoir, Alicia, and Verso were all created by Aline, made ageless, immortal, and immune to gommage.

[SS]

Originally posted by SalemMcGee:

Originally posted by eRe4s3r:

The painting doesn't hypnotize you, it literally draws your soul in. Every "faceless" persona you meet is such a drawn in soul (either part or whole)

Alina painted Fake Verso and Burned Alicia, Fake Renoir and Fake Alina.
Maelle was painted because Alina didn't see her as real Alicia, and thought it was a trick by Renoir.
Renoir painted himself (once you free Alina from the Canvas, the Renoir you meet is the real one with his painted persona and his soul (the curator))
The world and the fantasy elements were painted by Verso as a child.
The world is maintained by the SOUL of Verso
The Nevrons were painted by Clea
The Axxons + Nevrons there were painted by Renoir

Maelle isn't painted by Aline, it's the real Alicia.
People say A is painted by Aline, but there's no reason for that to have happened.

Maelle is the real Alicia, but got painted over and became Maelle. The Alicia already in the painting is a individual painting like a Necron or any other NPC in the game. Renoir is the faceless bald guy, Aline is the Paintress, and Alicia is Maelle.

[SS]

Originally posted by SalemMcGee:

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

No, it doesn't. The video literally tells you that Alicia will be born as one of Aline's creations.

yes, because she lost control during the fall.
Aline is unaware of Maëlle's existence when she first meets her and thinks it's a trick by Renoir.
This entirely disproves your point.

Aline has become insane in the painting and in real life and is no longer stable. Mixing reality and fiction. She was consumed by grief, went insane, and jumped into the painting and became completely consumed, like a drug.

[A Old Man]

Alicia sucks at her painting skill so when she attempted to dive into the painting to assist her father her persona got painted over presumably by her mother's influence, reborn in the world as Maelle, blissfully ignorant of her 'past' life. Note that the time between the painting world and reality are different, painted world time goes very fast.

During her expedition, through the various cutscenes, Maelle get's glimpses of her true self due to her painter powers. Fake dad at some point at the end of Act 1 tried to send her back to reality hence his quote about what he's doing being kindness for her which triggered a talk between real mom and dad about Alicia's situation which ultimate she got sent back to the canvas. (By the real father)

Fast forward at the end of Act 2 - Epilogue the paint known as Maelle gets stripped by Alicia's dad during his attempt at mass extinction of the world which all of a suddenly caused Alicia to remember her reality but as we soon see between the two individuals known as Maelle and Alica we see her past self(Alicia) gormmaged in red petals with a preference of embracing the painted life known as Maelle.

In the Canvas there is:
fake Alicia created by mom
real Alicia covered in a paint by her mom's influence whose reborn as a "color called Maelle"

which later became real Alicia influenced heavily and basically becoming Maelle.

Side note to refute some points I've read:
1. Alicia got painted over by real mom's influence. Mom was unaware of this
2. The 1st time real Alicia got an attempted kick out of the canvas by fake dad, the real mom took notice of Alicia(Maelle) being in the canvas and started arguing with real dad about why he allow it(note that real dad was observing her the whole time since she started the expedition)
3. Another instance mom saw real Alicia(Maelle) was during the mansion scene, and during the Axon scenes where she tried to intervene but real dad stopped her
4. During the paintress fight she was partially delusional probably due to the prologue exposure in the canvas but eventually she sobers up upon her near defeat.

[SirLQF]

Originally posted by A Old Man:

Alicia sucks at her painting skill so when she attempted to dive into the painting to assist her father her persona got painted over presumably by her mother's influence, reborn in the world as Maelle, blissfully ignorant of her 'past' life. Note that the time between the painting world and reality are different, painted world time goes very fast.

During her expedition, through the various cutscenes, Maelle get's glimpses of her true self due to her painter powers. Fake dad at some point at the end of Act 1 tried to send her back to reality hence his quote about what he's doing being kindness for her which triggered a talk between real mom and dad about Alicia's situation which ultimate she got sent back to the canvas. (By the real father)

Fast forward at the end of Act 2 - Epilogue the paint known as Maelle gets stripped by Alicia's dad during his attempt at mass extinction of the world which all of a suddenly caused Alicia to remember her reality but as we soon see between the two individuals known as Maelle and Alica we see her past self(Alicia) gormmaged in red petals with a preference of embracing the painted life known as Maelle.

In the Canvas there is:
fake Alicia created by mom
real Alicia covered in a paint by her mom's influence whose reborn as a "color called Maelle"

which later became real Alicia influenced heavily and basically becoming Maelle.

this pretty much explains it, the OP reason to not believe this was because in the battle against Paintress scene she say something about Maelle is a trick made by Renoir.

Here's my reason of why she thinks so :
1) She created an Alicia, that's why she reached out to Maelle assuming she was her Alicia
2) When Maelle didn't "feel" entirely made out of her chrome she gets confused (Since Maelle is Alicia's original Chroma covered by Aline's because of Alicia's lack of control)
3) Since Maelle did interact with the Curator (Renoir) there might be some of his chrome that she felt, so she assumes this version of Alicia has something to do with Renoir.

Edit : also if this helps, Maelle did get "gommaged" in the end of Act 2. At least Alicia's chroma from her, This supports my theory of Maelle is Alicia covered in Alina's chroma

[Soulgain]

Originally posted by eRe4s3r:

Originally posted by Ringlet:

I think that's the real theme of this game.
Many that I know say that they hate the disclosure of the plot in Act.3, that it makes everything in the first 2 Acts meaningless.

Ironic, I'd say.

Quite so. Maybe that was even the point the writers wanted to make. Clair Obscura means "strong contrast" after all. Is why I compare this game to Nier:Automata. Has the same kind of story vibe.

Its also debatable whether Maelles wish to stay in the canvas is bad or good since for her, this canvas is as much reality as the outside world. Probably more, since she didn't suffer a horrible injury and lost her brother in this world though she did lose Gustave... mhh.

Oh, I can genuinely resonate with everything that’s been said here. I’ve been comparing Clair Obscura to Nier Automata ever since I started playing. The themes of the human condition, existentialism, and all the questions that naturally start surfacing during the journey, it just pulled me into deep reflection without even trying.

I finished the game just a few hours ago. In fact, I went through it twice just to see both endings and give myself the space to really feel and process them. Honestly? I think I understand the crowd who's on the fence about how it all wraps up.
There’s a strange ambivalence in me. On one hand, I feel a kind of resistance; maybe even frustration towards Maelle’s desire to remain in the “illusion” (quotation marks intentional). And yet, I absolutely adore her. That conflict within me is part of what makes this story so powerful.
In the end, I chose Verso’s conclusion, not because it was more satisfying, but because it mirrors how I’ve come to see the world. I’ve been conditioned to live in reality, to face hardship rather than fall into fantasy. That’s the lens through which I see life, and so that’s the resolution I aligned with.

But whether I liked the endings or not isn’t the point. What matters is that I understand them both. I truly believe these endings aren’t designed for our approval, but they’re meant to make us reflect. I feel as if the game held a mirror for me during that last part, and as if asked "Which pill would you choose, Neo?". Whichever is the case, I strongly believe that Clair Obscura succeeds masterfully on many fronts.

[SalemMcGee]

Originally posted by A Old Man:

Alicia sucks at her painting skill so when she attempted to dive into the painting to assist her father her persona got painted over presumably by her mother's influence, reborn in the world as Maelle, blissfully ignorant of her 'past' life. Note that the time between the painting world and reality are different, painted world time goes very fast.

During her expedition, through the various cutscenes, Maelle get's glimpses of her true self due to her painter powers. Fake dad at some point at the end of Act 1 tried to send her back to reality hence his quote about what he's doing being kindness for her which triggered a talk between real mom and dad about Alicia's situation which ultimate she got sent back to the canvas. (By the real father)

Fast forward at the end of Act 2 - Epilogue the paint known as Maelle gets stripped by Alicia's dad during his attempt at mass extinction of the world which all of a suddenly caused Alicia to remember her reality but as we soon see between the two individuals known as Maelle and Alica we see her past self(Alicia) gormmaged in red petals with a preference of embracing the painted life known as Maelle.

In the Canvas there is:
fake Alicia created by mom
real Alicia covered in a paint by her mom's influence whose reborn as a "color called Maelle"

which later became real Alicia influenced heavily and basically becoming Maelle.

Side note to refute some points I've read:
1. Alicia got painted over by real mom's influence. Mom was unaware of this
2. The 1st time real Alicia got an attempted kick out of the canvas by fake dad, the real mom took notice of Alicia(Maelle) being in the canvas and started arguing with real dad about why he allow it(note that real dad was observing her the whole time since she started the expedition)
3. Another instance mom saw real Alicia(Maelle) was during the mansion scene, and during the Axon scenes where she tried to intervene but real dad stopped her
4. During the paintress fight she was partially delusional probably due to the prologue exposure in the canvas but eventually she sobers up upon her near defeat.

Okay, that makes sense.