Would the game be better with a block?

[D. Flame]

So like:

Parry: Super strict timing, take no damage, but builds up a powerful counter attack

Dodge: easier timing, take no damage

Block; No timing at all, just hold block, still take damage, but the damage is lessen significantly vs not blocking

It might help for people who struggle with timings on certain attacks. Thoughts?

[HotSipOfColdTea]

I would love a mechanic like this.

I have stopped playing the game due to not being able to hit the dodge windows.

[C1REX]

Maybe. Other games with parry also have a block. So it's more like a perfect block.
FF13-3 had such mechanics for example.

[Haruspex]

There's sorta a block it's called shoving every defense and damage reduction in your character. It's actually pretty strong.

[4accenter]

Maybe as an option (yes/no) for people like you would be ok for me.

[Frumpis]

I think this is a solid idea and I think the implementation would be relatively simple, but I doubt we will see it in Expedition 33. I will provide some practical take-aways and guidance at the end of this post, however.

What a block mechanic could look like: Holding block would allow you to take a flat damage reduction on any hit, but that hit would still apply debuffs and would affect character mechanics (no spoilers, but if you know you know). That damage reduction percentage would have to be determined by the dev team and would require balancing, but it would likely be somewhere between 10-50%. It might depend on the attack; it might depend on the enemy; it might depend on the party member's attributes. Perhaps it would be a flat damage reduction depending on stats/pictos/attack type.

Why I don't think it would work for Expedition 33: The pictos system would need to have pictos and weapons added into the game to enable a "block" playstyle. That is a ton of work to redesign the combat system and I think it is unrealistic at this point. Allow me to explain.

Explanation: The current pictos system allows you to specialize (spec) into certain play-styles. There is a picto that explicitly makes parrying bad and getting hit better, which enables a dodge-centric playstyle for those that do not want to have to perfectly time their defense. There are other pictos that make parrying muuuuuuch stronger. There are no pictos in the game, nor any weapon pictos, that are associated with blocking. If the developers wanted to incorporate a block mechanic, they would need to either add new pictos and weapons (perhaps in a DLC or expansion), or modify current pictos and weapons to include block pictos. That is a level of modification to the core systems that this team cannot be reasonably expected to make. I also think they would argue that it would go against the core philosophy of the combat, which is to encourage and reward learning enemy attack patterns instead of playing your turn and then tuning out enemy turns...which is how turn-based games feel for me 99% of the time. That core philosophy is what makes the combat engaging and exciting, at least for me.

Practical take-aways:
1) For this game, I think it might be reasonable to wish for some accessibility options to be added post-launch that allow for things like auto-dodging particularly dangerous attacks. This game was made by a small team and they likely focused on getting the game they wanted to make out the door. Now that the game is selling well and the game is finished, I would imagine they may consider adding some options to expand the audience. I am playing on hard and loving the risk-reward of learning parry windows, but I understand that plenty of people would like to enjoy the game without that punishing aspect of combat hurting their experience. It would not harm my satisfaction or enjoyment to have some accessibility options added to make the combat more tenable for more casual/less masochistic players. I'm all for it.

2) I think if they make another Clair Obscur game, which seems very likely, there may be some consideration for an additional defensive mechanic. I wouldn't count on it, though, because I think that sort of mechanic would go against the spirit of the combat system. I think accessibility options are the way to go here, but again, it would not harm my experience to have more options available.

3) If you are struggling with the game's combat, I would make two recommendations. One, include Maelle in your party and utilize her Elige ability. Make her your damage tank. You will be surprised at how effective that strategy is, especially if you include Lune as a healer. There are plenty of pictos that reward you for playing defensively and taking damage with Maelle. I promise that you will find that strategy to be effective throughout the entire game. Two, I would turn down the difficulty. Nobody cares what difficulty you play on. The point of difficulty levels is to be able to select a level of challenge that tests your skills. For me, that means hard. For you, maybe that means easy, or normal. It is not a reflection of your self-worth as a person. It is a sliding scale that enables you to have fun with the game you bought. This isn't dark souls. It's a beautiful story about grief and loss. Enjoy the ride.

[Revan]

Originally posted by D. Flame:

So like:

Parry: Super strict timing, take no damage, but builds up a powerful counter attack

Dodge: easier timing, take no damage

Block; No timing at all, just hold block, still take damage, but the damage is lessen significantly vs not blocking

It might help for people who struggle with timings on certain attacks. Thoughts?

But where would you put that block on a controller? I know some games that use the same button for parry and block, but in most games I've seen this didn't work out very well. I don't remember which game it was, but the last one like this that I've played made it almost impossible to trigger the parry/counters, no matter how you timed it, because it always considered your attempt to parry as an attempt to block.

I later changed some keybinds and it worked. But I think putting a dodge, parry, block and this additional parry for the limit attacks on just one controller could be a bit.. difficult.

[tipsy]

all jrpgs have a block mechanic and any sort of dodge is an agility stat. i prefer it that way because it encourages preparation rather than reaction time

[Ratsplat]

How about this: Block avoids all damage like a dodge, slightly larger window, BUT since you are still getting 'hit', it will apply any and all debuffs as normal. Best make sure you do not attempt to Block a charm lol.

[damian2472005]

would like to see it maybee at a cost of an AP. some parrys are horrible.. super delayed and followed by a fast attack. some enemys only beatable with parry.

[Ratsplat]

Originally posted by damian2472005:

would like to see it maybee at a cost of an AP. some parrys are horrible.. super delayed and followed by a fast attack. some enemys only beatable with parry.

Unless I haven't found it, I'm surprised there wasn't something along the lines of 'If you attempt to dodge or parry and miss the window slightly, spend 1 ap'

[Ren O'the Blade]

Block does not work in a game like this, since you already have HP and Defense. It would still have to be a timed mechanic to stand out and then it really would not be better then simply dodging.

The games that DO have block in addition to dodging and parrying are action orientated and the block comes with its own draw backs, suck as needing good shields, meaning you need a specific stat load out to rock it, stamina drain on blocking, slower response after blocking ETC. Or they ARE the evasion mechanic, like the mario RPGs, that reduced damage if timed correctly, the key word still being a timed mechanic.

What COULD be done for those who are struggling are accessibility options that increase windows for dodge/parry, give the indicators that some people are asking for, maybe comes with SOME sort of draw back to move the challenge else where, like lowering damage output ETC, if they want to keep the spirit of the games challenge, or not. I personally do not care if they make the game easier, by choice of the players. I want games like this to succeed so there will be more of them.

[Ackerlight]

NO

[causality]

Originally posted by D. Flame:

So like:

Parry: Super strict timing, take no damage, but builds up a powerful counter attack

Dodge: easier timing, take no damage

Block; No timing at all, just hold block, still take damage, but the damage is lessen significantly vs not blocking

It might help for people who struggle with timings on certain attacks. Thoughts?

Level your defense stat, functionally the same as blocking.

[D. Flame]

Originally posted by causality:

Originally posted by D. Flame:

So like:

Parry: Super strict timing, take no damage, but builds up a powerful counter attack

Dodge: easier timing, take no damage

Block; No timing at all, just hold block, still take damage, but the damage is lessen significantly vs not blocking

It might help for people who struggle with timings on certain attacks. Thoughts?

Level your defense stat, functionally the same as blocking.

Wrong. The point of this suggestion is so that people struggling have something to do in combat other than dodging or parrying. If gives them a tool so they can be active as well, so they do not feel like they are missing out on half the combat system.

[eeeechuta]

i think they shoudl put it in, if they allow builds that wipe the whole screen, they should allow immortal builds with even more ease. why?

because an immortal build needs to still spend time killing what's in front of them.
and the insta-wipe build is pseudo-immortal because it never gets hit.