Spoilers post game lore

[Managedant]

Prefacing this by saying I’m immensely happy with the game and satisfied with both endings, at least originally.

But man, after going through the struggle that is climbing through the post game or Act 3 content, I cannot help but feel like Verso ending becoming the ‘good’ ending was not the initial plan or at least forcing the ‘bad’ ending through Maelles decision was not it. I would almost deign to say that anything happening post the initial epilogue scene with Alicia is just… I’m not sure how to describe it… extra? And that the absolute melancholy ‘ending’ we initially got was going to be the only ending.

SO MUCH of the dialogue, from multiple characters, multiple journal entries, even Maelle herself seems to suggest that there was some kind of sub plot concerning verso essentially getting a second chance to live out his life.

Really from paint Alicia’s original letter to verso about the truth of the paintress, what was all that even about if he was just going to end the world anyways and Alicia was just gonna redo the cycle.

I might just be lookin at it from the wrong lens. Or maybe my mistake was deep diving into all the journal lore, especially the entries from Renoir, Verso to Julie and anything relating to Simon or Clea.

Would just like some extra insight if possible on this.

[Managedant]

*bump*

[parent child bowl]

There were heavy indications that Alicia's grief would lead her to end up following her mother's steps even before she knew that she was Alicia.

The ending of act 2 just cemented her as the bad ending for me. I'm pretty sure that she was the choice for the bad ending early in development. She is just too obviously the best choice.

[Managedant]

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

There were heavy indications that Alicia's grief would lead her to end up following her mother's steps even before she knew that she was Alicia.

The ending of act 2 just cemented her as the bad ending for me. I'm pretty sure that she was the choice for the bad ending early in development. She is just too obviously the best choice.

Within the scope of the story outside of anything extra, yes, it’s pretty clear cut. Alicia was already living a hollow life, her painted self being the same as her real self reflects that their mother essentially blames her for Verso’s death. Verso’s motivation to end the world is hinted at when he chooses to drop the letter into the ocean after reading it instead of running to Maele to warn her of what’s coming. I haven’t quite made it to the reacher peak yet so I’m not sure what lore tidbit will get revealed from the paint Alicia herself.

Verso’s motivation just makes no sense. Or it flip flops I guess. He’s fully aware of the sentience of the other living beings of his world. He pins for Julie and wishes desperately for her to be brought back. He sees the struggle to live that his friend Monoco goes through. A lot of this happens in post game. All the mini lore dumps you get from Floating Manor, Falling leaves, renoirs drafts, the paint workshop. It just alters my perception of what is otherwise a clean ending.
You get a bit more information on Clea which paints her as an absolutely almost sociopathic entity, more interested in her ‘war’ with the writers and sending her otherwise unremarkable sister in her stead to fix her parents feud despite having power that far exceeds the entire family (not only are her creations absolutely extremely powerful but she has the very unique ability of being able to paint over other people’s art)

To reiterate, I mainly have an issue with all these interactions with verso clearly having an attachment to the world and an acknowledgment that these too are living creatures with souls despite being ‘painted’ and just going “eh, ♥♥♥♥ it, I’m done, ♥♥♥♥ the rest”

[Resist]

I think ACT 3 was really rushed and there was no time to explain the stakes. As the story currently is, the endings don't make much sense. There are obvious better solutions for both Alicia and Verso's endings.

[Managedant]

Originally posted by Resist:

I think ACT 3 was really rushed and there was no time to explain the stakes. As the story currently is, the endings don't make much sense. There are obvious better solutions for both Alicia and Verso's endings.

That’s my feelings on it.

I genuinely feel like the game could have ended with the death of the paintress into an absolutely pure downer ending or an ‘open ended’ ending with the epilogue with Clea sending Alicia into the paintIng being how we navigate the post game with neither of the endings attached to it. I actually genuinely thought that was what was happening.

There is a helluva lot of lore in post game for there to be plenty to build off of in terms of a sequel or even just additional patch content/dlc content (that doesn’t need to be paid for, so don’t raise your pitchforks at me)

Again, I’m happy with the endings, for the most part. Just after playing the post game content, something genuinely feels off. Theres just way too much content that tries to convince Verso that there’s more to ‘life’ than Oblivion AND a fair amount of content (thought not as much as Verso)that tries to help Alicia deal with the fact that life is maybe not as bad as she thinks it is outside the painted world for them to be at odds in the way they are at the final battle.

[Resist]

Originally posted by Managedant:

Originally posted by Resist:

I think ACT 3 was really rushed and there was no time to explain the stakes. As the story currently is, the endings don't make much sense. There are obvious better solutions for both Alicia and Verso's endings.

That’s my feelings on it.

I genuinely feel like the game could have ended with the death of the paintress into an absolutely pure downer ending or an ‘open ended’ ending with the epilogue with Clea sending Alicia into the paintIng being how we navigate the post game with neither of the endings attached to it. I actually genuinely thought that was what was happening.

There is a helluva lot of lore in post game for there to be plenty to build off of in terms of a sequel or even just additional patch content/dlc content (that doesn’t need to be paid for, so don’t raise your pitchforks at me)

Again, I’m happy with the endings, for the most part. Just after playing the post game content, something genuinely feels off.

in the context of the story right now, Alicia and her parents can easily recreate the world and that should have been the good ending

[Managedant]

Originally posted by Resist:

Originally posted by Managedant:

That’s my feelings on it.

I genuinely feel like the game could have ended with the death of the paintress into an absolutely pure downer ending or an ‘open ended’ ending with the epilogue with Clea sending Alicia into the paintIng being how we navigate the post game with neither of the endings attached to it. I actually genuinely thought that was what was happening.

There is a helluva lot of lore in post game for there to be plenty to build off of in terms of a sequel or even just additional patch content/dlc content (that doesn’t need to be paid for, so don’t raise your pitchforks at me)

Again, I’m happy with the endings, for the most part. Just after playing the post game content, something genuinely feels off.

in the context of the story right now, Alicia and her parents can easily recreate the world and that should have been the good ending

I mean, we know that Sciel is ‘gone’ and Esquie and Monoco are ‘gone’. Verso is gone gone, having let his soul reside outside his own Canvas for too long.

What’s to say the canvas itself is actually gone? Lune pointedly did not walk into willful oblivion like the others did. With his daughter and Wife outside the painting and clearly not having any inclination to go back in (for now) I assume his motivation to erase the painting would be somewhat lessened given Alicia’s passionate battle to the contrary.

[Leopanther]

Any chance there could be a secret 3rd ending that nobody has discovered yet?

[parent child bowl]

Verso wants to destroy the canvas BECAUSE of his attachments. It will go through the same ♥♥♥♥ it just went through again because of Alicia.

Alicia is completely in Aline's shoes now. While she currently controls all chroma, she will weaken just like her mother and at least her father will be back in the canvas trying to get her out. It will be the fracture and Gommage all over again.

[FreeSergey]

Based on this OST https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_71EEIXpJg&t=1831s, I think there is a third secret ending that has not yet been discovered.
We have already have ending "Une vie à peindre" and "Une vie à t'aimer". I think "Une vie à rêver" (A Life to Dream) is should be third ending.

[Managedant]

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

Verso wants to destroy the canvas BECAUSE of his attachments. It will go through the same ♥♥♥♥ it just went through again because of Alicia.

Alicia is completely in Aline's shoes now. While she currently controls all chroma, she will weaken just like her mother and at least her father will be back in the canvas trying to get her out. It will be the fracture and Gommage all over again.

Then I’m wondering if Clea sent her in with an ulterior motive? Whatever happens, the ultimate goal of releasing Renoir is realized with whatever happens to Alicia or even Aline being of little consequence.

But she would have to know that Renoir would want to go back in…?

I dunno. I’m also curious why Clea just doesn’t use her power to decisively end the conflict. She has the power beyond anyone in this entire game to ‘paint over’ peoples creations. So why not just paint over her mother’s puppets? She literally painted over some random mook and he became this Godlike axon killing entity that decided to ♥♥♥♥ off into a hole because why not.

[parent child bowl]

Originally posted by Managedant:

But she would have to know that Renoir would want to go back in…?

She 100% does. Renoir's whole reason to stay in the canvas after Aline was out was to get Alicia out too. Alicia is naive af which led to the death of her brother and paired with her grief and ego will lead to a cycle of suffering in the canvas. She either learned nothing or just doesn't care which would make her a villain.

You also can't forget that Clea already uses her power to give Renoir a chance in the first place.

[Managedant]

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

Originally posted by Managedant:

But she would have to know that Renoir would want to go back in…?

She 100% does. Renoir's whole reason to stay in the canvas after Aline was out was to get Alicia out too. Alicia is naive af which led to the death of her brother and paired with her grief and ego will lead to a cycle of suffering in the canvas. She learned nothing.

So why did Clea send Alicia in at all? I assume Clea is not a dumb character, she essentially started the beginning of the end for her mother, instilling a way to ‘permanently’ rob her of power while her father became stronger.

Clea wants Renoir to be out of the Canvas to help her. Sending in Alicia just to restart the cycle seems vastly counterintuitive of that.

To elaborate: Why not just let it play out to its natural conclusion. It’s clear her father will eventually win, with the failsafe that Clea put in place. Alicia does not get mixed up in the drama, Renoir succeeds and burns the Canvas.

[Managedant]

Originally posted by FreeSergey:

Based on this OST https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_71EEIXpJg&t=1831s, I think there is a third secret ending that has not yet been discovered.
We have already have ending "Une vie à peindre" and "Une vie à t'aimer". I think "Une vie à rêver" (A Life to Dream) is should be third ending.

It’s a faint hope I have. I just know OSTs tend to have extra tracks thrown in for flavor. But the way the tracks are separated does seem to be done in a very pointed way. I mean I would
Be content with just the two endings.

[parent child bowl]

Originally posted by Managedant:

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

She 100% does. Renoir's whole reason to stay in the canvas after Aline was out was to get Alicia out too. Alicia is naive af which led to the death of her brother and paired with her grief and ego will lead to a cycle of suffering in the canvas. She learned nothing.

So why did Clea send Alicia in at all? I assume Clea is not a dumb character, she essentially started the beginning of the end for her mother, instilling a way to ‘permanently’ rob her of power while her father became stronger.

Clea wants Renoir to be out of the Canvas to help her. Sending in Alicia just to restart the cycle seems vastly counterintuitive of that.

The plan wasn't for Alicia to take Aline's place. Alicia got painted over by Aline when she entered the canvas and then made the experiences and memories as Maelle that ultimately lead to her choosing to stay. If Alicia entered the canvas as Alicia, none of that would have happened.

Clea prioritizes her world. She sends Alicia into the canvas while she fights the writers.