Wow -> No Woke = SUCCESS, Who Could've Guessed?

[[Thee] Meritorious One]

This is how you make a game. This is how you write dialogue. This is what you create interactions. This is how you create strong NON-FEMINIST characters. This is how you exclude all the non-sense in the world that < 0.1% care about.

This game is INCREASING concurrent player every day. Gee, I wonder why. Maybe it's because a fantasy game without woke crap is what players want.

The success of this game says it all. Thank you for crafting this game. I look forward to playing this soon.

[Multihog]

Publicado originalmente por Quillithe:

Publicado originalmente por Multihog:

Sure, but what I'm trying to point out is that when I speak about "woke," I'm not referring to conventional egalitarian principles, which I'm in favor of, but the ideology that put intersectionality and victim Olympics front and center -- the ideology that made it cool and expedient to be a victim and evaluate people on that basis. The ideology that turns places into the kind where everyone has to walk on eggshells for fear of committing some kind of a microaggression (such as at certain universities.) That is, roughly speaking, what people mean when they refer to woke.

This is different from anything we've had in history, at least in the West. Of course authoritarian-style speech enforcement exists elsewhere, but they're separate from this particular movement/phenomenon and with different motives.

Even if you can argue "woke is just being aware of injustice" or whatever, it's not useful because "woke" as it's known today refers to a specific phenomenon/ideology that started in the mid-2010s or so. It's like saying "gay" means carefree, but what you're saying is worthless because that's not what people mean when they use that word.

I'm very progressive, but I don't subscribe to woke ideology. These two are not mutually exclusive because wokeism isn't simply a synonym for progress. It's a particular route of possible change, not the only possible route. To me, presenting victimhood status as a moral credential is far from progress.

That's definitely not what most people mean, based on usage.

All you need to do is look at people calling games 'woke' for having minorities and homosexual characters (and in some cases, climate change)

Then they're idiots. There are hundreds of books written on this topic, and they're pretty uniform as to what "woke" is -- though of course the books that actually promote that ideology don't call it by that name. The same goes for any podcast episode I've heard, and mostly anything else.

I've always seen it presented as the same framework derived from critical social justice (Kendi, DiAngelo), Foucaultian postmodernism (deconstruct everything/no objective reality), intersectionality, etc, that really got off the ground with George Floyd's death.

Some forum warriors may misuse it as some blanket term against anything they oppose, but that doesn't mean it doesn't actually mean something. It's like communism: just because some idiots think everything not ultra-right is communism doesn't mean communism doesn't actually have a meaning. There's still a wealth of literature that defines it very well.

Of course, ultimately definition is fluid, but it's not quite *that* flimsy. If you want to know what woke is, read White Fragility. That's the unofficial Bible.

[Quillithe]

Publicado originalmente por Multihog:

Publicado originalmente por Quillithe:

That's definitely not what most people mean, based on usage.

All you need to do is look at people calling games 'woke' for having minorities and homosexual characters (and in some cases, climate change)

Then they're idiots. There are hundreds of books written on this topic, and they're pretty uniform as to what "woke" is. The same goes for any podcast episode I've heard, and mostly anything else.

I've always seen it presented as the same framework derived from critical social justice (Kendi, DiAngelo), Foucaultian postmodernism (deconstruct everything/no objective reality), intersectionality, etc, that really got off the ground with George Floyd's death.

Some forum warriors may misuse it as some blanket term against anything they oppose, but that doesn't mean it doesn't actually mean something. It's like communism: just because some idiots think everything not ultra-right is communism doesn't mean communism doesn't actually have a meaning. There's still a wealth of literature that defines it very well.

Of course, ultimately definition is fluid, but it's not quite *that* flimsy.

I can't say I've ever seen any of that in video games at least.

I'm aware it exists but mainly in particular subcommunities like a few private liberal arts colleges.

And like, the New York Times lol

https://nypost.com/2024/02/26/media/ex-ny-times-editor-shamed-by-colleagues-for-liking-chick-fil-a/

But it never really escalated beyond a fringe movement

[Moon Rabbit]

Publicado originalmente por SS:

Publicado originalmente por Doc Hammer:

No one's tired of it. Even you're woke. Woke has been a part of humanity for millions of years and is the only reason the species hasn't destroyed itself. Remember, education and continued study are important.

Transgenderism and feminism have only been involved in the human history where civilizations collapse.

Your trolling is so 'by the book' I found it using the Dewey Decimal System.
You are the regular McDonalds hamburger of trolls.

[Multihog]

Publicado originalmente por Quillithe:

Publicado originalmente por Multihog:

Then they're idiots. There are hundreds of books written on this topic, and they're pretty uniform as to what "woke" is. The same goes for any podcast episode I've heard, and mostly anything else.

I've always seen it presented as the same framework derived from critical social justice (Kendi, DiAngelo), Foucaultian postmodernism (deconstruct everything/no objective reality), intersectionality, etc, that really got off the ground with George Floyd's death.

Some forum warriors may misuse it as some blanket term against anything they oppose, but that doesn't mean it doesn't actually mean something. It's like communism: just because some idiots think everything not ultra-right is communism doesn't mean communism doesn't actually have a meaning. There's still a wealth of literature that defines it very well.

Of course, ultimately definition is fluid, but it's not quite *that* flimsy.

I can't say I've ever seen any of that in video games at least.

I'm aware it exists but mainly in particular subcommunities like a few private liberal arts colleges.

And like, the New York Times lol

https://nypost.com/2024/02/26/media/ex-ny-times-editor-shamed-by-colleagues-for-liking-chick-fil-a/

But it never really escalated beyond a fringe movement

But it did, one example being Sweden. Hand grenades and pipe bombs going off in the streets there is so normal that no one even bats an eye nowadays. Muslims are, or at least were, seen as a protected class, so all the problems with immigration and crime were all swept under the rug for years. It was always the fault of the racist natives and whatnot. Reluctance to admit failure for fear of appearing xenophobic is the woke aspect.

Now it is too late to control the problem, at least without radical measures, as there are large areas controlled by violent immigrant gangs. Police don't go into these areas without heavy backup, and even emergency services hesitate to.

This is actually a problem that plagues many countries in Europe (though nowhere to the extent of Sweden.) Yeah, woke ideology probably isn't the only cause, but it certainly helped in making it worse by trying to hide the problems as long as possible.

Yes, when it comes to the US, it started from colleges, and those are still the places you'll find best examples of it, but it's been exported out of them along with graduates. They don't suddenly just forget the indoctrination when they leave university. Wherever they go, they keep pushing it a lot of the time. And what about all those diversity training courses people are forced to take at work? Hollywood?

The reality is that it had quite a bit of cultural sway at its peak (which is now past.) Polls showed it was never that popular, but its proponents managed to make it look so by making a lot of noise and by the way it managed to capture certain industries and segments of the media.

[Quillithe]

Publicado originalmente por Multihog:

Publicado originalmente por Quillithe:

I can't say I've ever seen any of that in video games at least.

I'm aware it exists but mainly in particular subcommunities like a few private liberal arts colleges.

And like, the New York Times lol

https://nypost.com/2024/02/26/media/ex-ny-times-editor-shamed-by-colleagues-for-liking-chick-fil-a/

But it never really escalated beyond a fringe movement

But it did, one example being Sweden. Hand grenades and pipe bombs going off in the streets there is so normal that no one even bats an eye nowadays. Muslims are, or at least were, seen as a protected class, so all the problems with immigration and crime were all swept under the rug for years. It was always the fault of the racist natives and whatnot. Reluctance to admit failure for fear of appearing xenophobic is the woke aspect.

Now it is too late to control the problem, at least without radical measures, as there are large areas controlled by violent immigrant gangs. Police don't go into these areas without heavy backup, and even emergency services hesitate to.

This is actually a problem that plagues many countries in Europe. Yeah, woke ideology probably isn't the only cause, but it certainly helped in making it worse by trying to hide the problems as long as possible.

Yes, when it comes to the US, it started from colleges, and those are still the places you'll find best examples of it, but it's been exported out of them along with graduates. They don't suddenly just forget the indoctrination when they leave university. Wherever they go, they keep pushing it a lot of the time. And what about all those diversity training courses people are forced to take at work? Hollywood?

The reality is that it had quite a bit of cultural sway at its peak (which is now past.) Polls showed it was never that popular, but its proponents managed to make it look so by making a lot of noise and by the way it managed to capture certain industries.

See, now you're using it to refer to things completely unrelated to what you initially claimed like diversity training courses which have nothing to do with your initial definition.

How surprising. And probably pointless to engage with.

[Multihog]

Publicado originalmente por Quillithe:

Publicado originalmente por Multihog:

But it did, one example being Sweden. Hand grenades and pipe bombs going off in the streets there is so normal that no one even bats an eye nowadays. Muslims are, or at least were, seen as a protected class, so all the problems with immigration and crime were all swept under the rug for years. It was always the fault of the racist natives and whatnot. Reluctance to admit failure for fear of appearing xenophobic is the woke aspect.

Now it is too late to control the problem, at least without radical measures, as there are large areas controlled by violent immigrant gangs. Police don't go into these areas without heavy backup, and even emergency services hesitate to.

This is actually a problem that plagues many countries in Europe. Yeah, woke ideology probably isn't the only cause, but it certainly helped in making it worse by trying to hide the problems as long as possible.

Yes, when it comes to the US, it started from colleges, and those are still the places you'll find best examples of it, but it's been exported out of them along with graduates. They don't suddenly just forget the indoctrination when they leave university. Wherever they go, they keep pushing it a lot of the time. And what about all those diversity training courses people are forced to take at work? Hollywood?

The reality is that it had quite a bit of cultural sway at its peak (which is now past.) Polls showed it was never that popular, but its proponents managed to make it look so by making a lot of noise and by the way it managed to capture certain industries.

See, now you're using it to refer to things completely unrelated to what you initially claimed like diversity training courses which have nothing to do with your initial definition.

How surprising. And probably pointless to engage with.

Huh? Of course diversity training courses have everything to do with what I said before. They're directly derived from the intersectional/victim hierarchy logic that is at the core of woke ideology. Hell, that is precisely what they teach you. Diversity training absolutely has everything to do with the same ideological framework being discussed.

And what I brought up about Europe is also completely connected, as it places Muslims into a nigh-untouchable category in the European context (high intersectional victim points.) Same hierarchy logic again.

If you think not, then you just don't really understand the ideology. It's not scope creep but fruit from the same tree. Everything I'm placing under "woke" is completely coherent, and what you'll find from any half-decent source.

You won't find an explicit "this is woke!" label along with every manifestation of the ideology in the wild. What you'll find are behavioral patterns and systems that correspond to the ideology.

Earlier you said people call climate change woke. I won't because it's not. Climate change has nothing to do with intersectional victim dynamics/oppression hierarchies. It's not even people-centric/social but a natural phenomenon. It may be an issue that is more popular on the left, but it is not woke. It's not about social justice. Woke is.

[Vanu]

Publicado originalmente por Vanu:

when you see a toxic person trolling or anyone using the word "woke" unironically given that it literally doesn't mean anything but "what I disagree with because I blame whatever social media tells me to", you're supposed to not reply to them.

You can not help someone who did not use logic to get into their view point in the first place, and toxicity is rising.

The thread should have had 0 replies. Do not give idiocy the time of day.

It seems this thread needs a reminder.

[TPMJB]

Publicado originalmente por Doc Hammer:

Publicado originalmente por TPMJB:

Being woke has nothing to do with a specific time. Gays gained rights and representation beblah blah blah blah blah

Yes it does, and nobody gave a ♥♥♥♥ before 2017.

Not reading the rest of your drivel.

[Doc Hammer]

Publicado originalmente por TPMJB:

Publicado originalmente por Doc Hammer:

Yes it does, and nobody gave a ♥♥♥♥ before 2017.

Not reading the rest of your drivel.

No need to be upset because you lack basic knowledge and understanding of what woke is. You have access to the same information. Might want to keep your ignorance to yourself, bud, or maybe educate before making a fool of yourself.

[Bodhsativa]

The game is filled with well fleshed out, strong, intelligent women characters that aren't just sex objects or romance options. They are also playable and thewomen are arguably all the most important characters. So...

[Master]

780 comments, OP banned, people screeching about how woke this game is (spoiler: it's not) and still nowhere in sight a moderator that closes this thread because "it degenerated in non-constructive arguments"
I don't know what leaves me more amazed: this fact, or the fact that there are people saying that this game is anyhow woke

[Multihog]

Publicado originalmente por Master:

780 comments, OP banned, people screeching about how woke this game is (spoiler: it's not) and still nowhere in sight a moderator that closes this thread because "it degenerated in non-constructive arguments"
I don't know what leaves me more amazed: this fact, or the fact that there are people saying that this game is anyhow woke

I read a few pages back, and no one said this game is woke (or that it isn't). The discussion is clearly about wokeness in general.

I wrote massive posts and not a single one was about this game in particular.

[Master]

Read more thoroughly because half the comments I read are people calling this game woke...

[Jowoe]

Publicado originalmente por Thee Meritorious One:

This is how you make a game. This is how you write dialogue. This is what you create interactions. This is how you create strong NON-FEMINIST characters. This is how you exclude all the non-sense in the world that < 0.1% care about.

This game is INCREASING concurrent player every day. Gee, I wonder why. Maybe it's because a fantasy game without woke crap is what players want.

The success of this game says it all. Thank you for crafting this game. I look forward to playing this soon.

The world is full of hardship and horror. You have chosen to take a hobby made for your fun and enjoyment, and even when it's GOOD and void of the meaningless trite you've decided are great social injustices because some fat greasy 42 year old man told you so, you STILL can't be happy, you STILL need to be bitter about it, you STILL need to make a point of complaining instead of just playing the game having fun. What a whimpering little existence you lead.

[rospec]

Publicado originalmente por NegativeZero:

The game is woke, though. Antiwoke bigots are so sad.

No it's not. You're calling it woke so you have your "trump card" of woke game succeeding. Game is not woke. Gamers did not call this game "woke". You did.