The combat is very disappointing.

[Azure The Sky]

I'm like 20 hours in and this would be a much, MUCH better game without the inconsistent and janky parry system.

It's just... Bad.

The enemies take three years to attack, sometimes they jump and that's an attack, sometimes they jump and that's just them jumping to get closer.

Some enemies have energy weapons that make the animations hard to see, some projectiles are quite literally invisible.

I know it's going to be an unpopular opinion, because actual turn based combat is a dying gente, but where combat is concerned this game is a huge disappointment and it could have been better with either actual turn based combat or competent tells/animations if everything in the hardest difficulty will one shot you.

It doesn't help that Expedition mode is brain dead easy and expert is one shot city.

[DJ Rocket X]

Have you looked at the top of the screen? There's a little blurb stating the enemy intent once they begin their turn. It's not just flavor, it dictates how their attack is gonna play out.

If they just say their attacking, I don't got anything for ya, you'll have to wait and see what they do.

If it says they're attacking slowly it means they're doing a slower, bigger hit than their standard. Same thing but fast, it'll come out faster and a bit weaker (I think, maybe it's just fast but the same damage, I'm not sure)

I'm sure there's some more blurbs but I'm only about an hour in.

Also, this is a game where your not gonna block everything first try, you need to see how they move and react, then learn for future counter attacks. Don't beat yourself up over it, and be okay with taking a blow or two.

[Diabolical Taco]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von HackoDis:

The duelista (sp) Boss battle was a huge challenge for me at first ...
What i'm finding works best is too mix and match parries are dodges. If i'm feeling confident i know the enemies attacks i'll try and parry if not i'll dodge.

Its really not that bad i enjoy the challenge of trying to get it down pat to get a counter in :D

I'm on expert, and I absolutely loved that fight. It's so well designed. One thing I've learned about mixing dodge and parry is when you know you won't get the parry counter because you messed up a parry in the string is then you can just revert to dodge with Dodger equipped. You may as well at that point to give you a bigger window against the possibility of getting hit, and it helps learn the timings.

[Vacenti]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Azulmagia88:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lambi:

Then if Dark Souls is an RPG, so is this. What's the arbitrary difference you're drawing?

...Which means Dark Souls is NOT an RPG by your own logic. You're so extremely inconsistent right now it's surreal...

Man you are missing the point dark souls is an action game so of course you as the player have some input for the character but stats directly influence the character like for equipment and movement.

In Clair 33 attributes don't really matter for the character just equipment and player reflex are what matters.

But equipment scales off attributes... Lumina also gives attributes which is why they are so good and feel strong. That inherently means attributes are important.

My weapon with A scaling in speed givea me 1.5k bonus attack..

Max attribute vs minima can make the difference between 2-3 turns and 1-2k attack power

[Reqence]

Aww, what's the matter, OP? You got filtered by the parry system? Play on easy then

[Lambi]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Azulmagia88:

but stats directly influence the character like for equipment and movement.

Which by your own admission doesn't matter since if you're good at dodge rolling/parrying it doesn't matter what equipement you have or what movement you have. That's what you don't seem to understand. That's why can't give a pass to Dark Souls while not giving one to E33.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Azulmagia88:

dark souls is an action game

And it's also an RPG. And E33 itself is marketed as having real-time mechanic, and even tagged as an "Action RPG", just the same as Dark Souls because of these real-time mechanics. So by that metric, it should be okay that you as a player have some input for the character.

[Moojuice]

I play on expert and I am not a pro but the combat is just fine. You have to learn the attack patterns. Sure first try for most of the enemies is hard but save points are so fair so everybody should manage to win the fights.

[strongled]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vacenti:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Azulmagia88:

Man you are missing the point dark souls is an action game so of course you as the player have some input for the character but stats directly influence the character like for equipment and movement.

In Clair 33 attributes don't really matter for the character just equipment and player reflex are what matters.

But equipment scales off attributes... Lumina also gives attributes which is why they are so good and feel strong. That inherently means attributes are important.

My weapon with A scaling in speed givea me 1.5k bonus attack..

Max attribute vs minima can make the difference between 2-3 turns and 1-2k attack power

Lumina are the passives, Pictos are the ones that give stats, they're equippable in the three slots. They also don't give attributes, your speed won't affect your agility scaling on the weapon no matter how many speed pictos you stack.

[Vacenti]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von strongled:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vacenti:

But equipment scales off attributes... Lumina also gives attributes which is why they are so good and feel strong. That inherently means attributes are important.

My weapon with A scaling in speed givea me 1.5k bonus attack..

Max attribute vs minima can make the difference between 2-3 turns and 1-2k attack power

Lumina are the passives, Pictos are the ones that give stats, they're equippable in the three slots. They also don't give attributes, your speed won't affect your agility scaling on the weapon no matter how many speed pictos you stack.

Ah yes I meant picto. Either way everything still applies. But they giving stats regardless.

I never said bonuses to speed affect agility. It affects how many turns you can do. Speed is affected by both equipment and attribute.

I also never said attribute scaling are affected by speed picto. I said scaling matters because 0 VS 99 agility is a massive amount of DPS. It doesn't matter how good the scaling is if the attribute is too low.

[Lambi]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Azulmagia88:

Yeah because it is an action game and again I never said it wasn't an rpg I think you misinterpreted my words. In dark souls attributes and equipment will limit what the player is able to do with the character.
I don't know why you keep bringing up dark souls though, and comparing it with this garbage dark souls is actually good, and I will admit I don't even like the game but I praise its merits.

Because you said "This is not what RPGs are". And I brought up Dark Souls which you now even agree is an RPG. But it went DIRECTLY against what you said RPGs were/weren't. In Dark Souls, equipment, stats, levels, etc, doesn't matter in the same way, since you can ignore all that if you're good at dodge rolling. Same as E33.

for a game to be an rpg stats have to play a major role in the character not player reflexes

This was your definition of an RPG. Which goes directly against Dark Souls being an RPG, yet you still said it was an RPG.

So clearly it's not a matter of being an RPG. So now you shifted the goalpost to not being about RPGs anymore, but rather about being or not being an action game. Which again, is just arbitrary. Since the game has always, ALWAYS, presented itself as having real-time mechanics and even is tagged as an action game. So it too, is an action game, in a certain sense.

I'm bringing up Dark Souls, not only to show your hypocriscy, which has been clearly displayed. But also since the devs of E33 literally cited Sekiro and From Soft games as one of their main inspiration. And it clearly shows, with how many elements are borrowed from the Souls-genre.

[Lambi]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Azulmagia88:

Ok, you are definitely misunderstanding what I was saying. Go look at what I said at post 67.

Well dark souls actually somewhat because stats have an actual impact on the character development and stat requirements like what equipment you can equip.

Which again, by your own admission, doesn't matter. Cause you can 100% ignore that by simply being good at dodge rolling. Meaning player skill overrides your stats, your equipment and such. Which you said was not something an RPG could do. It was a requirement for an RPG not to do.

[Feet Quality Taster]

git gud scrub

[RaiJin-Roh]

Im playing on expert because i am a god!

[Lambi]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Azulmagia88:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lambi:

Which again, by your own admission, doesn't matter. Cause you can 100% ignore that by simply being good at dodge rolling. Meaning player skill overrides your stats, your equipment and such. Which you said was not something an RPG could do. It was a requirement for an RPG not to do.

Of course because dark souls is an action game(which means player input matters somewhat by default) as well as an rpg. Clair Obscur isn't an action game but a simple turn based system with QTEs with attributes that are pretty much useless.

See what I mean by moving past RPG. So clearly that was not a requirement for an RPG. But alas, who is to say it isn't an action game? It's literally tagged as an action game on Steam. The devs themselves go out of their way to highlight the action elements of the combat.

It just happened to be in a spot where it doesn't have a clearly defined term. Sort of like how Souls games were before Souls-like became a genre. Imagine people criticizing Demon souls saying "This is NOT what action RPG games are supposed to be. It's a REQUIREMENT that you keep your experience on death. Death should NOT be punishing in an action RPG". Cause that's pretty much what you sound like right now. You're trying to make up arbitrary definition that no one else would use, just so you can somehow justify your argument.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Azulmagia88:

with attributes that are pretty much useless.

Sort of like how in Dark Souls attributes are usless. But I digress.

[shadow82]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Azure The Sky:

I know it's going to be an unpopular opinion

Unpopular maybe, but that is also what I felt after about 27 hours (on GamePass reaching mid act II). The combat became a chore more than fun after getting yet another parry system introduced. The spectacle is amazing, but overall, particles, explosion and trick moves mixed with cinematic camera angles make for a very average experience. Most fights turn into a slog, with enemy cheating the turn base system, healing themselves, shielding themselves, deleting team members (not killing just removing them) without leaving much agenda to the player before those things happen. Yes you can get out of those situation, but sometime it just feels too much and you will end up losing after a multi-10min fight, only to start from square 0 again, without having learnt much if anything at all.

I mentioned that in my review, act I is amazing, the concept feel fresh enough for people that are not used to other turn-based game with QTE (not it's not an original idea - sorry), the art direction, voice-over, music, story are all very good. Unfortunately the gameplay is a let down. One reviewer I watch and follow here, mentioned it in his review (after 100% completion) as a caveat as well. I guess he knew what eh was talking about, unlike most clickbait-reviewer that just go through the prologue and some part of act I and call it a masterpiece.

I invite anyone disagreeing to really push their progress a bit more before judging what the OP and I are stating here.

[Lambi]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von shadow82:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Azure The Sky:

I know it's going to be an unpopular opinion

Unpopular maybe, but that is also what I felt after about 27 hours (on GamePass reaching mid act II). The combat became a chore more than fun after getting yet another parry system introduced. The spectacle is amazing, but overall, particles, explosion and trick moves mixed with cinematic camera angles make for a very average experience. Most fights turn into a slog, with enemy cheating the turn base system, healing themselves, shielding themselves, deleting team members (not killing just removing them) without leaving much agenda to the player before those things happen. Yes you can get out of those situation, but sometime it just feels too much and you will end up losing after a multi-10min fight, only to start from square 0 again, without having learnt much if anything at all.

I mentioned that in my review, act I is amazing, the concept feel fresh enough for people that are not used to other turn-based game with QTE (not it's not an original idea - sorry), the art direction, voice-over, music, story are all very good. Unfortunately the gameplay is a let down. One reviewer I watch and follow here, mentioned it in his review (after 100% completion) as a caveat as well. I guess he knew what eh was talking about, unlike most clickbait-reviewer that just go through the prologue and some part of act I and call it a masterpiece.

I invite anyone disagreeing to really push their progress a bit more before judging what the OP and I are stating here.

I still strongly disagree. Past Act 1, the combat gets even better I feel. You have more party members and so many Pictos/Weapons to pick from to create your own personalized build. My favorite meme build isn't even possible to get in Act 1.