The combat is very disappointing.

[Azure The Sky]

I'm like 20 hours in and this would be a much, MUCH better game without the inconsistent and janky parry system.

It's just... Bad.

The enemies take three years to attack, sometimes they jump and that's an attack, sometimes they jump and that's just them jumping to get closer.

Some enemies have energy weapons that make the animations hard to see, some projectiles are quite literally invisible.

I know it's going to be an unpopular opinion, because actual turn based combat is a dying gente, but where combat is concerned this game is a huge disappointment and it could have been better with either actual turn based combat or competent tells/animations if everything in the hardest difficulty will one shot you.

It doesn't help that Expedition mode is brain dead easy and expert is one shot city.

[Le_Langusto]

i ONLY parried the whole game and the key is just to Fu learn the attacks.

[Yukito For Ever]

Skill issue

[Josh]

For Turn based, its truly fantastic as a system, so far at lvl 15. And even though some attacks are hard to anticipate initially because of the purposely misleading animations and timing, you can generally get by. I wish all the attack animations were easier to read. Sometimes audio cues help, but often, by the time I really GET IT, the fight is over and it doesn't matter anymore=) A few boss fights, I've lost my party except for one and by then, I can counter or dodge easily, so its just a battle of attrition.

[Lambi]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SeraphLance:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lambi:

Now of course I'm not going to sit here and say every single attack in the entire game is utterly perfectly designed. They're not. There are some attacks that genuinely do have an issue with their animation or maybe even sometimes the camera can make things too awkward. But it's far FAR from 70-80% of attacks. Those types of attacks I would put at MOST around ~5% of all attacks.

I'm sorry, I do not buy that you are first-timing any of the complex bullet-time fake-out attacks, gradient fake-out attacks, or more than maybe one or two of the complex combos like those from Dualliste, Clair Obscur, or stuff like Benisseur's orb spam. Not to mention enemies like Noir and Contortionist with their unreadable movements.

Yes, it's a lot like Souls games. Lots of chest-thumping ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about how people are one-shotting all the bosses and everyone else needs to "git gud". Dying (or in this case, getting hit), learning, and retrying is part of the gameplay loop.

70% of attacks are not fake-outs, but 70% of those attacks are hitting you at least once the first time you encounter them. This game would be *trivial* for you if they weren't.

When did I say I first timed them? Did you not actually read what I wrote? I assume you didn't, so let me remind you:

Of course, actually executing the dodge perfectly, is another question entirely. But if and when I do fail, I tend to understand exactly why. And I'm usually not blaming the enemy's attack animation or something of the sort. I usually understand that it's me who wasn't paying close enough attention and was too trigger happy.

Meaning I emphasize the difference between understanding when you're supposed to dodge an attack you haven't seen and actually successfully dodging it. Even for attacks you have seen before and remember the moveset of, you still won't just 100% perfectly dodge/parry each of their hits.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SeraphLance:

70% of attacks are not fake-outs, but 70% of those attacks are hitting you at least once the first time you encounter them. This game would be *trivial* for you if they weren't.

Yes. Which is why I said what I said. I think you misinterpreted what I said into meaning I just walk around first-timing every single enemy left and right. Obviously that's not what I'm doing. And the game would be incredibly boring if I did. I'm talking about being able to reasonably tell when the actual window is. Which is seperate from actually executing the dodge itself. But it was to hit home the point that it's not just "trial-and-error and memorization". The mere fact that you even can first time a lot of things, directly disproves that. Yet you said that anyone who claims otherwise is lying through their teeth. An insane statement and just objectively wrong.

[SeraphLance]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lambi:

When did I say I first timed them? Did you not actually read what I wrote? I assume you didn't, so let me remind you:

Let me remind you of what I wrote:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SeraphLance:

And if you want to claim you are flawlessly first-timing more than say, 20-30% of the attacks in the game then yes you are most definitely lying.

At no point did I claim 70% of the game's attacks were impossible to read from sight alone. It's probably closer to 15% than 5%, but obviously 70% would be absurd. I said you aren't first-timing more than 30% of the attacks because you simply aren't.

Yes, someone *can* do these things. They aren't, at least not the first time playing the game. They're building up muscle memory through trial and error like everyone else.

You're picking a ridiculous hill to die on and I don't understand why.

[Cosmophase]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Azure The Sky:

I'm like 20 hours in and this would be a much, MUCH better game without the inconsistent and janky parry system.

It's just... Bad.

The enemies take three years to attack, sometimes they jump and that's an attack, sometimes they jump and that's just them jumping to get closer.

Some enemies have energy weapons that make the animations hard to see, some projectiles are quite literally invisible.

I know it's going to be an unpopular opinion, because actual turn based combat is a dying gente, but where combat is concerned this game is a huge disappointment and it could have been better with either actual turn based combat or competent tells/animations if everything in the hardest difficulty will one shot you.

It doesn't help that Expedition mode is brain dead easy and expert is one shot city.

I don't understand these posts - when you say "janky and inconsistent" are you speaking of your own inability to be consistent with parries? Only time I am missing parries/dodges is because I am getting the timing wrong.

[Lambi]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SeraphLance:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lambi:

When did I say I first timed them? Did you not actually read what I wrote? I assume you didn't, so let me remind you:

Let me remind you of what I wrote:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SeraphLance:

And if you want to claim you are flawlessly first-timing more than say, 20-30% of the attacks in the game then yes you are most definitely lying.

At no point did I claim 70% of the game's attacks were impossible to read from sight alone. It's probably closer to 15% than 5%, but obviously 70% would be absurd. I said you aren't first-timing more than 30% of the attacks because you simply aren't.

Yes, someone *can* do these things. They aren't, at least not the first time playing the game. They're building up muscle memory through trial and error like everyone else.

You're picking a ridiculous hill to die on and I don't understand why.

Let me remind you what you intially wrote:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SeraphLance:

Anyone who acts like they do anything other than memorize the patterns through trial-and-error is lying through their teeth.

Which I can say the same thing as you. Why are you choosing this ridicolus hill to die on? How hard is it to say "You know what, fair enough. There is more to it than just trial-and-error and memorization"? Besides this whole "20-30%" and "flawlessly first-timing" was something you only amended afterwards. At first it was just "pure memorization and trial-and-error. Anyone saying otherwise is a liar". Again, how hard is it to just say "Okay, that might have been a bit of a dumb statement"? That's a weird hill to die on.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SeraphLance:

I said you aren't first-timing more than 30% of the attacks because you simply aren't.

And I maintained the position that there's a difference between not first-timing them despite knowing what the window is, and not first-timing them because it's impossible to tell. Something you don't want to acknowledge. But the difference between these two things actually means something.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SeraphLance:

Yes, someone *can* do these things. They aren't, at least not the first time playing the game. They're building up muscle memory through trial and error like everyone else.

Of course someone is building up muscle memory through trial and error. But why do you think this is mutually exclusive? Do you think human beings are only capable of one singular thing at any given time?

[Zanfroni]

Moon Rabbit: "anyone criticizing this game is being mocked and attacked"

70% of the comments here: "haha skill issue" "you suck at the game" "maybe git gud" "works fine to me, you just suck at the game" "clown award farmer"

Yeah... I think he has a point when he says people are acting unhinged.

[♡Sybau♡]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Azure The Sky:

I'm like 20 hours in and this would be a much, MUCH better game without the inconsistent and janky parry system.

It's just... Bad.

The enemies take three years to attack, sometimes they jump and that's an attack, sometimes they jump and that's just them jumping to get closer.

Some enemies have energy weapons that make the animations hard to see, some projectiles are quite literally invisible.

I know it's going to be an unpopular opinion, because actual turn based combat is a dying gente, but where combat is concerned this game is a huge disappointment and it could have been better with either actual turn based combat or competent tells/animations if everything in the hardest difficulty will one shot you.

It doesn't help that Expedition mode is brain dead easy and expert is one shot city.

Terrible take. This is one of the most popular games out. If you feel certain aspects of the game feel "janky", then that's a system issue on YOUR end. I haven't had an issue yet. You're the outlier. Most people are NOT in agreement with you. You want to breeze through the game? play Easy mode. You want more of a challenge? play expedition. You want to test your reaction skill with MANDATORY parrying? Play expert. Don't get on here and complain because YOU are a terrible gamer

[Das_Moustache]

You just suck lol I'm playing on expert and already in end game finishing up
Learn to parry time nub

[SwissyChief]

Skill issue. The parry system is perfect.

[Peter Panzy]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Das_Moustache:

You just suck lol I'm playing on expert and already in end game finishing up
Learn to parry time nub

Your ego ok there ?? You didn't hurt your sensitive skin with all that chest pounding did you ?? Ok good.... trying to be a internet tough guy is scary stuff and you can get hurt

[Mandark]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von FromChaosTheory:

I parry and dodge just fine. You guys just don't want to learn timing.

The attacks seemed slow to me at first, so I spent 2 hours rematching Maelle to learn the timings, and it still feels awful.

[Ceredh]

A matter of taste. Even with the mod with longer i-windows I find the urge to parry/block ... quite tedious.

As the game has a kind of card deck combat where positioning and tactical movement (unlike in PoE or BG 3 for example) is not possible, the parry/block system was seemingly the only way to make combat a bit more interesting. And most people seem to like it, so deal with it, you will certainly not make the devs change the system.

You still have some freedom, like me. I stopped playing for now.

[mediocreungulate]

Too many people with trash opinions who shouldn't be saying anything--and who don't have the decency or intelligence to feel embarrassed for publicly saying something asinine.

It's okay to enjoy trash; it's okay to enjoy this combat system. But it's as close to objectively bad as you can get with something that has a level of subjectivity to it. It being a popular system matters in a fiscal sense--i.e., it helps it sell--but says nothing about its merits. In this case, its utter lack of merit. Everyone loves something that is garbage. Don't confuse enjoyment with quality.

Just say "I like this game's combat system despite it being bad" and move on.

I.e.: Grow up.