Why are there so many people...

[Masterom2000]

Asking if they can play the game without the quick time/dodge mechanics? It's been showcased as one of the MAIN points of the game. I guarantee most people throw it on expert, just to find out it's exactly what it says, HARD and get frustrated. These are the same people who will defend terrible combat systems like in FF7 remake and FF 16. Blows my mind.

[Whirblewind]

There are so many people asking the same question because the steam page outright lies about this game being turn-based. They keep asking the question despite seeing the answer because it's hard to reconcile being lied to about the nature of the combat with so many people saying otherwise.

These passersby also come into the comments and see drooling apologists trying to make the conversation about difficulty "git gud" when the conversation was only ever about the nature of the game as advertised, not how difficult it is. So they make their own topic asking for confirmation, trying to find the truth amidst the deceptive Steam page and the chorus claiming the opposite.

[SciopticChimken]

Publicado originalmente por Lambi:

Publicado originalmente por jamielefeaux:

but when we see a fun looking game that claims to be turn based it gets our hopes up that we may have found something to match the speed of our creaking bones.

Objectively wrong. The game has always marketed itself as having real-time mechanics. They quite literally sell the game as such. "turn-based RPG with real-time mechanics", it flat out says so on the Steam store page. They even have an entire section when you read about the game that goes over the "Reactive turn-based combat: Open an active dimension in combat - dodge, parry, and counter in real time".

This is 100% on you for not reading.

Yep I am still trying to find where some people on here with super smooth brain takes have said this was billed as a "purely turn based JRPG" and are surprised it has real time mechanics and get salty

[Lambi]

Publicado originalmente por Whirblewind:

There are so many people asking the same question because the steam page outright lies about this game being turn-based. They keep asking the question despite seeing the answer because it's hard to reconcile being lied to about the nature of the combat with so many people saying otherwise.

These passersby also come into the comments and see drooling apologists trying to make the conversation about difficulty "git gud" when the conversation was only ever about the nature of the game as advertised, not how difficult it is. So they make their own topic asking for confirmation, trying to find the truth amidst the deceptive Steam page and the chorus claiming the opposite.

As stated in a previous comment: The game has always marketed itself as having real-time mechanics. They quite literally sell the game as such. "turn-based RPG with real-time mechanics", it flat out says so on the Steam store page. They even have an entire section when you read about the game that goes over the "Reactive turn-based combat: Open an active dimension in combat - dodge, parry, and counter in real time".

So you are just outright wrong in saying that they "lied". They have been as upfront about it as can be.

[MrJane]

Because the mechanic freakin' sucks.

[Whirblewind]

Publicado originalmente por Lambi:

Publicado originalmente por Whirblewind:

There are so many people asking the same question because the steam page outright lies about this game being turn-based. They keep asking the question despite seeing the answer because it's hard to reconcile being lied to about the nature of the combat with so many people saying otherwise.

These passersby also come into the comments and see drooling apologists trying to make the conversation about difficulty "git gud" when the conversation was only ever about the nature of the game as advertised, not how difficult it is. So they make their own topic asking for confirmation, trying to find the truth amidst the deceptive Steam page and the chorus claiming the opposite.

As stated in a previous comment: The game has always marketed itself as having real-time mechanics. They quite literally sell the game as such. "turn-based RPG with real-time mechanics", it flat out says so on the Steam store page. They even have an entire section when you read about the game that goes over the "Reactive turn-based combat: Open an active dimension in combat - dodge, parry, and counter in real time".

So you are just outright wrong in saying that they "lied". They have been as upfront about it as can be.

Go ahead and tell me what the first tag on the game's page is.

We'll wait for you to move the goalpost.

[Bekhent]

Publicado originalmente por Lambi:

Publicado originalmente por jamielefeaux:

but when we see a fun looking game that claims to be turn based it gets our hopes up that we may have found something to match the speed of our creaking bones.

Objectively wrong. The game has always marketed itself as having real-time mechanics. They quite literally sell the game as such. "turn-based RPG with real-time mechanics", it flat out says so on the Steam store page. They even have an entire section when you read about the game that goes over the "Reactive turn-based combat: Open an active dimension in combat - dodge, parry, and counter in real time".

This is 100% on you for not reading.

He's dead..

[SciopticChimken]

Publicado originalmente por Whirblewind:

Go ahead and tell me what the first tag on the game's page is.

We'll wait for you to move the goalpost.

It's always people that use buzzwords like "goalpost" that contain very little logic in their conversations. Even on Sandfall's website the lead devs list off some of their favorite games as Souls games. There's also the lack of understanding that you think TB games all have the same battle system and can't have real time mechanics. This is entirely your fault that you didn't read about what this game is lmao

[C1REX]

Publicado originalmente por Masterom2000:

Asking if they can play the game without the quick time/dodge mechanics? It's been showcased as one of the MAIN points of the game. I guarantee most people throw it on expert, just to find out it's exactly what it says, HARD and get frustrated. These are the same people who will defend terrible combat systems like in FF7 remake and FF 16. Blows my mind.

I’m 100% sure people are allergic to investing points into health.

It’s still the case in Elden Ring and it’s even more of a case here where vitality is OP to the extreme. It’s literally broken.
You can multiply your hp by 10x with like 40levels or so. Not double - ten fold. It’s insane how much of a difference it makes when other stats barely move when levelling up.
You can defend by taking hits on your face and heal when needed.

But people are allergic to OP healing spells as well and prefer to buy some useless offensive spells that are weaker than the starting ones.

So they end up making the game ultra hard for no reason. Falling into a silly myth of „the best defence is better offence”. When in truth it’s the other way round in such games.

[Lambi]

Publicado originalmente por Whirblewind:

Publicado originalmente por Lambi:

As stated in a previous comment: The game has always marketed itself as having real-time mechanics. They quite literally sell the game as such. "turn-based RPG with real-time mechanics", it flat out says so on the Steam store page. They even have an entire section when you read about the game that goes over the "Reactive turn-based combat: Open an active dimension in combat - dodge, parry, and counter in real time".

So you are just outright wrong in saying that they "lied". They have been as upfront about it as can be.

Go ahead and tell me what the first tag on the game's page is.

We'll wait for you to move the goalpost.

It's tagged as "Turn-based combat". Why would I move the goalpost? I never once even said that it wasn't a turn-based combat. In my very comment I even quoted them flat out saying it's turn-based combat. So it's aptly tagged as such. However, you are the one who seems to lack reading comprehension in the fact that they in SEVERAL places of the description make sure to include the key feature of "with real time mechanics". Turn-based combat WITH REAL-TIME MECHANICS. You understand what that means or do you need to go back to kindergarten?

And if you want to use Steam tags as some sort of point. Then you will see if you open the list of tags the game has, it's also tagged as "Action RPG".

[Rithoo]

Publicado originalmente por Whirblewind:

Publicado originalmente por Lambi:

As stated in a previous comment: The game has always marketed itself as having real-time mechanics. They quite literally sell the game as such. "turn-based RPG with real-time mechanics", it flat out says so on the Steam store page. They even have an entire section when you read about the game that goes over the "Reactive turn-based combat: Open an active dimension in combat - dodge, parry, and counter in real time".

So you are just outright wrong in saying that they "lied". They have been as upfront about it as can be.

Go ahead and tell me what the first tag on the game's page is.

We'll wait for you to move the goalpost.

It says "Turn based combat" because the game has turn based combat. This isn't the first game like this. The Mario and Luigi rpgs for example have 'turn based combat' and have always been described as such. They had turn based combat with reactive elements during player and enemy actions.

You seem to just be trying to redefine the term into a hyper specific, tiny catagory to match your argument.

[Neyreyan_Youtube]

Publicado originalmente por Masterom2000:

Asking if they can play the game without the quick time/dodge mechanics? It's been showcased as one of the MAIN points of the game. I guarantee most people throw it on expert, just to find out it's exactly what it says, HARD and get frustrated. These are the same people who will defend terrible combat systems like in FF7 remake and FF 16. Blows my mind.

Because we need good games so influencers invent good games and people belive its a good game.
Was watching luality play and she said she loves game then proceded to throw a fit and take breaks because she died from 1-2 mistakes😀

[HotSipOfColdTea]

Publicado originalmente por Masterom2000:

Publicado originalmente por Gamble8624:

Because we want a turn based RPG, not a souls reaction based perfection timing game. These genres do not go together. I refunded it over the issue. I'll just watch it on yt as the story seemed cool.

It is a turn based RPG, it has nothing to do with dark souls lol. Legend of Dragoon, Shadow Hearts, Mario RPG, there are plenty of them out there. This one just makes you have to dodge as well. I get it's not for some people, but man the more I look into it, people just seem like they can't do it and blame the game instead of not wanting to put in the effort. It's a cakewalk on easy and a nightmare on expert.

All of these games you mentioned either do not use it on defense or are easy enough to the point they are beatable without using it.

Legend of Dragoon is offense only and you can customize which combo you are using to avoid any particular hard ones that you do not like. You can also equip 2 versions of ACCs that allow you to auto complete combos at reduced effect (and opportunity cost). This also has clear timed flashing indicators about exact timings like this game also has on offense.

Shadow Hearts has visual indicators with the ring system. These are clear visual indicators that you can reliably see and you can time everything just looking at the ring.

Mario is easy to the point you never need to time attack and with enough grinding you can defeat any content including optional content in just a few rounds while never using a command on offense or defense. It is also the only one on this list that is animation only. I would argue the animations are much more consistent and forgiving in Mario then this game. But if Mario had bosses that one shot you and force you to have a 80% dodge rate, I am sure you would see a similar level of complaints on the topic.

You are never forced to dodge in any of these games.

I would also add that there seems to be a lot of input lag in this game. The dodge windows seem very off from the animation. There is also no feedback is you are early or late (like there is in all 3 of the above games).

[HotSipOfColdTea]

Publicado originalmente por Lambi:

Publicado originalmente por Whirblewind:

Go ahead and tell me what the first tag on the game's page is.

We'll wait for you to move the goalpost.

It's tagged as "Turn-based combat". Why would I move the goalpost? I never once even said that it wasn't a turn-based combat. In my very comment I even quoted them flat out saying it's turn-based combat. So it's aptly tagged as such. However, you are the one who seems to lack reading comprehension in the fact that they in SEVERAL places of the description make sure to include the key feature of "with real time mechanics". Turn-based combat WITH REAL-TIME MECHANICS. You understand what that means or do you need to go back to kindergarten?

And if you want to use Steam tags as some sort of point. Then you will see if you open the list of tags the game has, it's also tagged as "Action RPG".

Yes but, real time mechanics does not automatically mean dodge or die, it also does not mean 1-2 frame windows.

Games like a fighting game are fun even at low parry rates.

Try plaing this game with a dodge rate of less than 20 percent and see how fun the system feels.

[HotSipOfColdTea]

Publicado originalmente por RakataEpsilon:

Publicado originalmente por Lambi:

Objectively wrong. The game has always marketed itself as having real-time mechanics. They quite literally sell the game as such. "turn-based RPG with real-time mechanics", it flat out says so on the Steam store page. They even have an entire section when you read about the game that goes over the "Reactive turn-based combat: Open an active dimension in combat - dodge, parry, and counter in real time".

This is 100% on you for not reading.

Yep I am still trying to find where some people on here with super smooth brain takes have said this was billed as a "purely turn based JRPG" and are surprised it has real time mechanics and get salty

Because devs said they took heavy inspiration from final fantasy games. And this is true with the art style and cutscenes.

Its obviously going to attract the fans of those games.

And then when they encounter a monster that one shots them even on even the easiest difficulty, its going to be frustrating for them.

[Lambi]

Publicado originalmente por HotSipOfColdTea:

Yes but, real time mechanics does not automatically mean dodge or die, it also does not mean 1-2 frame windows.

What a great thing you can read/watch more about this if you want to find out. Also "1-2 frame windows", stop it. Just stop it. No one is going to take you seriously if you talk bs like that. The frame window is very forgiving. Unless you're playing on the hardest difficulty and only try to parry instead of dodging.

Publicado originalmente por HotSipOfColdTea:

Games like a fighting game are fun even at low parry rates.

Try plaing this game with a dodge rate of less than 20 percent and see how fun the system feels.

Try playing Dark Souls with less than 20 percent dodge and see how fun the system feels. You don't see how nonsensical this statement is?