things i still don't understand after 2 playthroughs

[Hormesis]

1) Who saved gustave at the beach? lune? I know the curator saved maelle and that esquie saved sciel, but i don't know who saved gustave. my assumption is they land on dark shores, considering it's full of broken ships and Noir monsters, however there's a lot of ocean between there and where gustave found himself. he was also about to get clapped so he must have been saved

Answer: the consensus seems to be verso. the evidence is that it shows verso as gustave and lune enter the mansion. i'm not convinced this is great evidence myself. i always interpreted this to simply mean he was looking after maelle. he even makes a comment later that he was killing the dangerous nevrons before she encountered them. considering the only place she's been (presumably) is the mansion, and right outside the mansion, it would seem to imply verso was near that area from the get go. it would have been hard for him to be in two places at once. there's also the comment on the tree which people have interpreted to have been left my verso. again it's possible, i always just assumed it was the curator (renoir). finally verso having saved gustave only to let him die later doesn't make a whole lot of sense. unless he just wanted gustave to help for a while then decided he was no longer needed and that verso would simply take his place. at the end of the day verso having saved renoir is the most likely explanation (even if it comes with it's own questions)

edited: also important to note esquie did NOT save sciel (or at least that doesn't seem to be the case since when they meet in his cave he states it's their second encounter, their first was after her husband's death).

2) what did lune mean when she said, "you do that, we both die" (speaking to gustave). the way it was delivered tells me there's more to it than just the fact she be left behind. the entire game i was waiting for it to be explained but it never was. only thing i can think of was she was sitting next to him so the bullet could travel through his head and strike her also.

answer: most likely the most simple explanation is the right one, him shooting could also hit lune

3) another thing i was waiting the entire game to explain was why gustave was striking his chest in times of stress. this is a common thing people w/ dysrhythmias will do, but considering his age and his overall appearance it would imply a congenital abnormality. finally how'd he lose his arm? was that also a congenital abnormality? was the paintress's waning power leading to more genetic issues?

answer: none really provided but then again it might not even be worth answering. cardiac issues due to overwhelming stress

4) why didn't maelle bring back gustave when she fled renoir? i realize she brought back both lune and sciel who died by gommage, but she brought him back during her ending so that can't be a limitation.

answer: seems mostly speculative, although there is some corroborating evidence to support the premise she's unable to resurrect gustave because of location and duration of death. the speculation comes mostly from the idea the new gustave (and sophia/sciel's husband) are not the originals. again this does lead to more questions however. in my mind this wasn't the cannon ending anyways so it's a non-issue so far as i'm concerned.

5) where are signs of the axon that simon killed. if you go to renoir drafts, the area that renoir was trapped, you'll find all the other axons. the faces from verso's axon, the straw hat from maelle's axon, the entire body of sirene and yet no signs of this mystery axon. was the axon he destroyed supposed to be aline's axon? or was the giant paintress which painted the numbers her axon and the one that simon destroyed was renoir's axon?

answer:
vestiges = verso
straw hat giant = alicia/maelle
sirene = aline
city carrying axon = clea (killed by simon)

[Me]

Originally posted by Hormesis:

5) where are signs of the axon that simon killed. if you go to renoir drafts, the area that renoir was trapped, you'll find all the other axons. the faces from verso's axon, the straw hat from maelle's axon, the entire body of sirene and yet no signs of this mystery axon. was the axon he destroyed supposed to be aline's axon? or was the giant paintress which painted the numbers her axon and the one that simon destroyed was renoir's axon?

The Axon Simon destroyed is the giant corpse you see in Old Lumiere. You also see several paintings of it in the Mansion. It is the one that carries a city on its back. It represents Clea, who takes the responsibility of the whole family upon herself (hence, carrying a city on her back).

[Unrealtairo]

1) Who saved gustave at the beach?

Verso, if you freeze from a recording, hes in it lol
This also leads to the speculation that "he" is the one that wrote the message on the tree

[Hormesis]

Originally posted by Me:

Originally posted by Hormesis:

5) where are signs of the axon that simon killed. if you go to renoir drafts, the area that renoir was trapped, you'll find all the other axons. the faces from verso's axon, the straw hat from maelle's axon, the entire body of sirene and yet no signs of this mystery axon. was the axon he destroyed supposed to be aline's axon? or was the giant paintress which painted the numbers her axon and the one that simon destroyed was renoir's axon?

The Axon Simon destroyed is the giant corpse you see in Old Lumiere. You also see several paintings of it in the Mansion. It is the one that carries a city on its back. It represents Clea, who takes the responsibility of the whole family upon herself (hence, carrying a city on her back).

ah ok, good catch. yeah i've seen that painting several times. didn't realize that was her axon. next time i visit renoir drafts i'll have to see if i can find any remnants of it. then does that mean that sirene was aline's axon? my assumption was each axon was supposed to represent a family member. verso was the masks and alicia the giant axon with the straw hat.

[Hormesis]

Originally posted by Unrealtairo:

1) Who saved gustave at the beach?

Verso, if you freeze from a recording, hes in it lol

what. weird. i had considered that, didn't see him i just didn't have a lot of options, but why let him die later?

[Me]

Yes. Aline is Sirene, Verso is the mask one (Visages), Alicia is the straw one at the Reacher, and Clea is the the one Simon killed.

[Unrealtairo]

Originally posted by Hormesis:

Originally posted by Unrealtairo:

1) Who saved gustave at the beach?

Verso, if you freeze from a recording, hes in it lol

what. weird. i had considered that, didn't see him i just didn't have a lot of options, but why let him die later?

If you max the relationship with Maelle he explains that, not sure if you want it spoiled despite doing your NG+ now, maybe you didn't max it or skipped lol :D

[Hormesis]

Originally posted by Unrealtairo:

Originally posted by Hormesis:

what. weird. i had considered that, didn't see him i just didn't have a lot of options, but why let him die later?

If you max the relationship with Maelle he explains that, not sure if you want it spoiled despite doing your NG+ now, maybe you didn't max it or skipped lol :D

no i maxed it. she asks if he let gustave die, and if you answer yes (the truth) your relationship goes up. but i don't recall it saying he saved gustave at the dark shores. he did say he watched over maelle and killed all the difficult nevrons, but again i don't remember him ever mentioning saving, nor helping, gustave. it also shows verso right when you get to the mansion, but i just assumed that meant he was watching the area that maelle was. i even assumed, despite her boast to the contrary, that verso was the one who killed those nevrons outside the mansion. again none of this says he helped gustave in any way

[Unrealtairo]

Oh, no I see what you're asking now. Correct he doesn't mention the beach, only why he let him die, not a combination of both.

It was not directly answered, speculation would be the best answer for that sadly.

Like, why not just let him die at the beach, and help maelle starting from the beach instead. Ya, it's a good question

[Griever]

I always interpreted that Gustave was warped by the attack from the monster and not killed, somehow.

Also very clear to me that Verso wrote the message on the tree, he is also the one that follows Gustave and Lune in Flying Waters (if you look closely).

[Fanta]

Originally posted by Hormesis:

4) why didn't maelle bring back gustave when she fled renoir? i realize she brought back both lune and sciel who died by gommage, but she brought him back during her ending so that can't be a limitation.

Because she read the script and knew we were supposed to carry on playing with 5 characters, and Verso, not Gustave, was to be one of them.
Seriously, I don't believe it makes any sense. Not only Alicia/Maelle didn't re-paint Gustave right away, along with Sciel and Lune, but also (in the previous cutscene) she saved Verso from being scrubbed. After that verso betrayed them all knowing they and everyone in Lumiere would die, because... he was tired of living.

[ggsnake]

Originally posted by Hormesis:

2) what did lune mean when she said, "you do that, we both die" (speaking to gustave). the way it was delivered tells me there's more to it than just the fact she be left behind. the entire game i was waiting for it to be explained but it never was. only thing i can think of was she was sitting next to him so the bullet could travel through his head and strike her also.

I think this one was pretty simple - she was right next to him when he tried to suicide, implying that the bullet would hit her, too.

Originally posted by Hormesis:

4) why didn't maelle bring back gustave when she fled renoir? i realize she brought back both lune and sciel who died by gommage, but she brought him back during her ending so that can't be a limitation.

That's easy to explain, Maelle explicitely states in a cutscene that she cannot bring back "old" chroma as long Renoir is controlling most of it. In other words, she can bring back very recently gommaged people, but not people who died some time ago. Furthermore, since Gustave died on the new continent, his chroma would not have left his body, and the best she could do was revive him as a soulless warrior just like the other expedition members she recruits as her army at the end.

[Ogami]

Originally posted by Fanta:

Seriously, I don't believe it makes any sense. Not only Alicia/Maelle didn't re-paint Gustave right away, along with Sciel and Lune

Thats because she needs the persons chroma to reconstruct them. She could completely repaint them from memory but that would be a different person who just looks like the original.
To recreate the same person she needs that persons chroma.
You see her collecting Sciels and Lunes chroma before fleeing Lumire with Verso.
And in the talk after that she explains that she can bring back everyone who died/got gommaged BUT she need to control the entire canvas chroma for that which is in Renoirs control.

Also she cant bring back people killed by Nevrons since that prevents the chroma from returning to the canvas and "spoils" it over time. Thats why she can only create those temporary shadow soldiers from the corpses of the old expeditions since its polluted chroma.

Both Gustave and Pierre the husband of Sciel did not get killed by Chroma so their essence was available to reconstruct which she did in her ending scene.

[Me]

Originally posted by ggsnake:

That's easy to explain, Maelle explicitely states in a cutscene that she cannot bring back "old" chroma as long Renoir is controlling most of it. In other words, she can bring back very recently gommaged people, but not people who died some time ago. Furthermore, since Gustave died on the new continent, his chroma would not have left his body, and the best she could do was revive him as a soulless warrior just like the other expedition members she recruits as her army at the end.

Chroma only stays in the body of humans killed by Nevrons. That's the whole point of the Nevrons, to trap the chroma of the humans they kill. Gustav was killed by Renoir (painted version), and he dissolves into chroma (flower petals).

[Ogami]

Originally posted by Me:

Gustav was killed by Renoir (painted version), and he dissolves into chroma (flower petals).

He does not. Painted Renoir does not have the power to gommage people, thats real Renoir.
Gustaves body is cleary lying on the ground after that cutscene, he did not disolve into petals.
But its still not killed by Nevron so his chroma would return to the painting.
Plus painte Renoir would be all for peoples chroma returning to the canvas, its real Renoir and Clea who created the Nevrons to prevent that.

[Me]

Originally posted by Ogami:

Originally posted by Me:

Gustav was killed by Renoir (painted version), and he dissolves into chroma (flower petals).

He does not. Painted Renoir does not have the power to gommage people, thats real Renoir.
Gustaves body is cleary lying on the ground after that cutscene, he did not disolve into petals.
But its still not killed by Nevron so his chroma would return to the painting.
Plus painte Renoir would be all for peoples chroma returning to the canvas, its real Renoir and Clea who created the Nevrons to prevent that.

I mean, you clearly see him dissolving into Chroma. It's not about gommaging. All humans who die dissolve into Chroma and return to the paintress. The only exception is, if they are killed by Nevrons. Clea created the Nevrons to prevent humans Chroma from returning to the Paintress, thus weakening her.