(Spoilers)Renoir Discussion

[Ratsplat]

I feel out of everyone and everything, a lot of discussions have hardly touched upon Painted Renoir. A bit hyperbole, but I feel he was possibly dealt the worst hand of cards out of everyone in the world of Clair Obscur.

Aline's painted family was 'fake' to her in the sense that she created them, though technically real in another sense if we believe they're all sentient with their own lives and experiences. However, the painted family was very much 'real' to Painted Renoir. And just like real Renoir, he was doing everything that he could to keep his family together, despite supposedly knowing the truth about everything and that he was 'fake'.

Despite being on opposing sides, both Renoirs actually share a lot of similarities. For one, it could be said that both were committing 'genocide' to save their family. Real wanted to delete the whole canvas, while Painted went after the Expeditioners.

There's probably a lot more to add but I don't feel like writing a lot at the moment.

Bonus Thought: I feel that killing everyone didn't bother Painted Renoir, since if killing people turned them into pure Chroma, then Aline can eventually bring everyone back once her actual husband is banished from the canvas.

[Tensar]

Killing people don't give chroma to Aline.
The chroma don't return to the paintress, it become old with time and "low quality"

And yes painted Renoir is in a sad situation... Clea disappeared, Verso betrayed his family, Aline is busy playing her "game" with real Renoir since decades. Alicia is the only one who stay with him...

[Unrealtairo]

I see it this way

This canvas was "Versos". Both soul verso & painted verso wanted to DIE. They were tired, they were done.

Aline & Maelle could've just painted their own Canvas, instead they chose to torture Verso and keep him alive, against his wishes. It's demented. Aline and Maelle can't let go, even if it meant enslaving Verso (Which is exactly what Maelle does in her ending)

Renoir was right all along honestly. They're torturing Verso for no reason, none at all, other than emotional turmoil. It's fk'd up.

Funny how Renoir is presented as the bad guy for 2 acts when really, hes not, even a little bit.

[Ratsplat]

Originally posted by Tensar:

Killing people don't give chroma to Aline.
The chroma don't return to the paintress, it become old with time and "low quality"

And yes painted Renoir is in a sad situation... Clea disappeared, Verso betrayed his family, Aline is busy playing her "game" with real Renoir since decades. Alicia is the only one who stay with him...

I definitely need to go through things again, but my general understanding is that Chroma mainly goes bad thanks to Nevrons. Which is a bit weird honestly. If the real Renoir is doing the Gommage, which leaves the Chroma pure, couldn't Aline just reuse it then? Letting Nevrons run rampant and kill Lumierans just seems like a lost cause. If I were her, I'd just stop worrying about the gommage and put all her energy into banishing him, then bring everyone back right after. Alicia managed it somehow. And even if bringing people back didn't bring back their original minds, Aline wouldn't care about that since those she does care about are immortal anyways.

[Genosse Kommissar]

Originally posted by Tensar:

Killing people don't give chroma to Aline.
The chroma don't return to the paintress, it become old with time and "low quality"

And yes painted Renoir is in a sad situation... Clea disappeared, Verso betrayed his family, Aline is busy playing her "game" with real Renoir since decades. Alicia is the only one who stay with him...

As far as I understand chroma does return to the painter but Clea created the Nevrons to take it away from Aline, leading to Aline having less and less of it over time, until she cant paint anything anymore in this canvas.

[Me]

Originally posted by Genosse Kommissar:

Originally posted by Tensar:

Killing people don't give chroma to Aline.
The chroma don't return to the paintress, it become old with time and "low quality"

And yes painted Renoir is in a sad situation... Clea disappeared, Verso betrayed his family, Aline is busy playing her "game" with real Renoir since decades. Alicia is the only one who stay with him...

As far as I understand chroma does return to the painter but Clea created the Nevrons to take it away from Aline, leading to Aline having less and less of it over time, until she cant paint anything anymore in this canvas.

Yes, that's correct. Clea created nevrons to prevent Aline from having access to the chroma of humans killed by them. Fake Renoir kills the expeditioners to ensure the chroma returns to Alina, because he assumes they will otherwise just get murdered by the nevrons.

[rasabt]

think you need to get away from the notion of "fake" and "real" in the context of the game
who is to say the "real" ones weren't painted by someone else?
what is the difference between beeing "painted" and/or created by a god, evolution or whatever?

[Tensar]

Then better to go kill everybody in Lumière and fight at full power against real Renoir

[Ratsplat]

Originally posted by rasabt:

think you need to get away from the notion of "fake" and "real" in the context of the game
who is to say the "real" ones weren't painted by someone else?
what is the difference between beeing "painted" and/or created by a god, evolution or whatever?

I see them all as real personally, but I try to word my posts fairly neutral.

[Tensar]

Originally posted by rasabt:

think you need to get away from the notion of "fake" and "real" in the context of the game
who is to say the "real" ones weren't painted by someone else?
what is the difference between beeing "painted" and/or created by a god, evolution or whatever?

They can go outside and change this world...
No doubt you took Maelle ending

[Me]

Originally posted by rasabt:

think you need to get away from the notion of "fake" and "real" in the context of the game
who is to say the "real" ones weren't painted by someone else?
what is the difference between beeing "painted" and/or created by a god, evolution or whatever?

I mean, in Renoir's case, one is the original and the other is a copy. For all the characters that don't have a real world counterpart, it is obviously a bit more complicated.

[Ratsplat]

Originally posted by Tensar:

Then better to go kill everybody in Lumière and fight at full power against real Renoir :lunar2020thinkingtiger:

That would actually work IF that's how Chroma actually operates. But we still only know so little.

[Genosse Kommissar]

Originally posted by Ratsplat:

I see them all as real personally, but I try to word my posts fairly neutral.

"My dude, you have spend too much time in the canvas, get your ass out of there."
^^

[Tensar]

Originally posted by Ratsplat:

Originally posted by Tensar:

Then better to go kill everybody in Lumière and fight at full power against real Renoir

That would actually work IF that's how Chroma actually operates. But we still only know so little.

Yeah, from how I understood it all the corpses we see still have chroma in them... They never made any difference with people killed by nevrons or by Painted Renoir (who got Nevrons on his side too at the begenin )

[Ratsplat]

Originally posted by Tensar:

Originally posted by Ratsplat:

That would actually work IF that's how Chroma actually operates. But we still only know so little.

Yeah, from how I understood it all the corpses we see still have chroma in them... They never made any difference with people killed by nevrons or by Painted Renoir (who got Nevrons on his side too at the begenin )

I'm actually curious about that, whether he and the Noire really were on the same side or not. Could be seen as him wanting to kill them before the Noire could claim everyone, realizing that the expedition landed at a very dangerous location. Makes sense too. If he was working with them, and knew just how strong they were, there'd be no reason for him to assist them. And once the battle started, all the Noire were drawn in, going after any that he missed.

[Me]

Originally posted by Tensar:

Originally posted by Ratsplat:

That would actually work IF that's how Chroma actually operates. But we still only know so little.

Yeah, from how I understood it all the corpses we see still have chroma in them... They never made any difference with people killed by nevrons or by Painted Renoir (who got Nevrons on his side too at the begenin )

Pretty sure nevrons in the beginning were not on Renoir's side. He was just trying to get to the humans before the nevrons did.

The humans killed by nevrons still have chroma in them, but it is not returning to the Paintress. Unlike when Renoir kills people, they dissolve into Chroma (flower petals) and return to the Paintress. Humans killed by nevrons don't dissolve, they leave corpses behind with their chroma trapped in the corpses.