How is Jeanne Alter able to Match to Saber? (SPOILERS)

[GB EX]

Being that Jeanne Alter Lancer is a fame boost-less Servant in Edo-era Japan, how is she able to canonically match Yamato Takeru (as TypeMoon describes him, "Japan's King Arthur") in battle while on his home turf? (or any of the other Japanese Servants?)

F/SR establishes that Jeanne Alter is severely weakened due to her irregular summoning and lacks fame, yet is able to stand on par with and (in some cases) overpower Japan's own native hero among heroes.

[allknowingeel]

Because...reasons. It's never explained well.

I guess it's the power of wanting to lead Chiemon off the path of darkness? Don't think too hard about this.

I agree it's stupid. Jeanne basically wanted to save Chiemon and lead him off the path of darkness so she gets summoned and willingly takes on his burdens. She get's weak because she doesn't have an actual Alter, it's said in her lore that she doesn't have one. Therefore, the "Alter" that we see is actually all of Chiemon's stuff that she willingly took on. This didn't corrupt her, but made her really weak.

But apparently not weak enough to be able to go toe to toe with Saber. Maybe she's still weak enough to fight on par with him for a moment but in a drawn out fight will lose?

[GB EX]

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

Because...reasons. It's never explained well.

I guess it's the power of wanting to lead Chiemon off the path of darkness? Don't think too hard about this.

I agree it's stupid. Jeanne basically wanted to save Chiemon and lead him off the path of darkness so she gets summoned and willingly takes on his burdens. She get's weak because she doesn't have an actual Alter, it's said in her lore that she doesn't have one. Therefore, the "Alter" that we see is actually all of Chiemon's stuff that she willingly took on. This didn't corrupt her, but made her really weak.

It sounds like Jeanne is running off of sheer willpower, basically negating / evening out her weakened state from her irregular summoning. That, or Jeanne in the F/SR is just absurdly powerful to the point where when she is severely weakened and fame-less, she is still overpowered enough to fight fame-boosted, ultra legend Japanese King Arthur.

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

But apparently not weak enough to be able to go toe to toe with Saber. Maybe she's still weak enough to fight on par with him for a moment but in a drawn out fight will lose?

It would be nice if the TYPE-MOON wiki or someone on the staff specified that. Currently, it is a massive plot hole in the fundamental laws of how Servants work.

[allknowingeel]

Originally posted by GB EX:

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

Because...reasons. It's never explained well.

I guess it's the power of wanting to lead Chiemon off the path of darkness? Don't think too hard about this.

I agree it's stupid. Jeanne basically wanted to save Chiemon and lead him off the path of darkness so she gets summoned and willingly takes on his burdens. She get's weak because she doesn't have an actual Alter, it's said in her lore that she doesn't have one. Therefore, the "Alter" that we see is actually all of Chiemon's stuff that she willingly took on. This didn't corrupt her, but made her really weak.

It sounds like Jeanne is running off of sheer willpower, basically negating / evening out her weakened state from her irregular summoning. That, or Jeanne in the F/SR is just absurdly powerful to the point where when she is severely weakened and fame-less, she is still overpowered enough to fight fame-boosted, ultra legend Japanese King Arthur.

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

But apparently not weak enough to be able to go toe to toe with Saber. Maybe she's still weak enough to fight on par with him for a moment but in a drawn out fight will lose?

It would be nice if the TYPE-MOON wiki or someone on the staff specified that. Currently, it is a massive plot hole in the fundamental laws of how Servants work.

Actually I remember something. In the first DLC when you play as her, you have to fight archer. When you win, archer makes a comment that is something along the lines of, he knows that it wasn't due to skill that he lost, but something else, and hints that it is her determination.

Honestly I like this Jeanne a lot. Regular Jeanne is my favourite character in all of fiction, and I originally hated this version because I thought they had just destroyed the lore about her being incorruptible that was established in 2015. But really, when you look at her, she's not corrupted. She's best described as a Pseudo-alter (that's what the wiki calls her), as despite looking like an alter, she has none of the actual traits of one. Namely that she isn't corrupted, inverted, and didn't have some negative side brought out as the core personality. She's an Alter purely out of Chiemon's circumstances. She's doing what she always does, trying to guide someone off the dark path. I made a post going over all her stories, you can find my thoughts about this story there if you're interested. It also goes over her role in the dlc episodes which is honestly some of the best stuff about fsr Jeanne.
https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/1icgo3s/jeanne_darc_in_fate_an_appreciation_of_the_holy/