Jeanne is actually pretty cool in this game, just a flawed execution

[allknowingeel]

Originally I was pissed off about what they did to Jeanne, It wasn’t until I took a step back and did a thematic analysis that I began to appreciate the ideas behind her portrayal. You can find no shortage of outrage about it online. The main thing that annoyed people was that it seemed as if Jeanne was corrupted, and Jeanne is not meant to be able to get corrupted, that's the whole reason Jeanne alter (avenger) in fate go is more like a conceptual fake servant. She was made by Gilles and defeated, then in Ruler Jeanne's third interlude, she was able to manifest because she made Jeanne feel guilty and feeling happiness at being saved. Jeanne alter blew that out of proportion and was able to manifest. Then after you beat her, Jeanne realises it's okay to feel human emotions, even negative ones, and that as long as she doesn't let them over take her, then there's no issue. This is what led to Jeanne alter being made into an avenger and a conceptual, what if Jeanne had allowed her emotions to overtake her?

The reason I bring that up is because people often use this as supposed proof that Jeanne can somehow be corrupted. But that’s not it at all. Firstly, the interlude shows Jeanne realising it’s okay to feel emotions and lean on others and that she doesn’t have to carry every burden alone. Secondly, these lessons are specific to the Jeanne in that moment and don’t carry over to the Throne of Heroes. Therefore, the Jeanne in Fate/Samurai Remnant wouldn’t have this context or experience.

The main point here is that Jeanne isn't really corrupted. She is an alter, but being an alter does not actually imply corruption. It either means that they are an inverted form of who they are usually, or that it is a different facet of themselves that is not usually seen. Jeanne alter in this case was just regular Jeanne who saw Chiemon, and couldn't bear to let him suffer alone. So she forces her spirit origin into a lancer class, this weakens her. Then she has to be weakened again to be summoned by a terrible master like Chiemon. Then, when she gets summoned, she doesn't get blasted by all of his memories of anger and hate and then get turned, what she does is she purposefully takes his anger and grudges into herself, to try and alleviate some of that pain from Chiemon. This does not corrupt her, the official materials explicitly state that Jeanne has no alter side to bring out and what happened here, is that she let his anger in and it stained her mind. But staining here does not mean corruption, it is stated that all the staining did was weaken her will power, resolve, and fighting capabilities. This is very important, as it limits her resolve to go against him, nothing more. This is also what gives her that alter look, dark clothes, pale skin, yellow eyes, and bleached hair.

Jeanne is not here to say "Yeah Chiemon, let's burn everything to the ground", she is there to make his final days less miserable and try to minimise harm. This is why she forces him to use a command seal for her most dangerous noble phantasm, Flamme Pays Étranger. This shows that she is still trying to minimise the destruction. When she fights Lori and Saber for the second time, if you look at Jeanne in that scene, she looks down and away, and closes her eyes. Her body language makes it clear this isn't what she wants to do. Then when Assassin attacks, she very clearly kills a part of the swarm that was targeting Lori and Saber. And later she shows up to fight a possessed Cu Chulainn to buy Lori and Saber time.

Jeanne in Fate/Samurai Remnant is very much just regular Jeanne. She still acts with compassion and understanding, she has no hatred of anyone in the war. She's not acting angry and evil, she's not attacking with hatred, all of her attacks are slow which may even be to show this hesitation. And in the game there is a dock fire at a certain moment. And Jeanne simply looks at it sadly, and makes a small prayer for the lives that were lost. Now people may look at her alignment and say "But she's chaotic evil, how is that Jeanne?" and to that I would say you need to look at the context. Her master's wish is to open the gates of hell, because he believes that is where is family is. This will probably cause some death and destruction. And Jeanne is his servant, and her entire goal is to bring Chiemon some solace, and she does that by taking on some of his burdens. So in a way, she is taking on his evil, but not actively doing it. It is much more of a symbolic alignment rather than her own morality. It also ties back into her weakened will slightly. If we were to actually look at what her real alignment would be, it's closer to chaotic good or neutral good. You could argue lawful good to some degree if you wanted. Furthermore she doesn't fall under the spell that mind controlled most contracted and rogue servants, showing she's still Jeanne and resisting control.

Now you could argue that Jeanne should just not have allowed herself to be summoned at all, but that doesn't really make sense when you factor in her character. Jeanne is selfless, kind, and compassionate to a fault. By not going to Chiemon's side, it would do two things. First it would be turning her back on someone who is almost lost to despair, that is something Jeanne just cannot do. Secondly, it would result in a servant who probably would actually be destructive and egg him on further into the darkness.

Now despite this, the game does do a bad job of showing this which also leads to people misunderstanding her character. While she wants to guide him to a better path, she doesn't do a very good job. We had three interludes of digressions in the game that all do very little. The first interlude showed Chiemon’s Survivor’s Guilt. We learn Chiemon is haunted by his survivor’s guilt, self-hatred, and nightmares, but Jeanne’s presence feels oddly passive. She simply sits there while he suffers, without attempting to soothe or guide him. Jeanne is the character who should step in during moments of despair. Her entire purpose is to be a source of hope and solace, yet she doesn’t do anything meaningful here. Even if Chiemon resists her efforts, we should have seen Jeanne trying, offering words of comfort, reminding him of his worth, or even praying for him. The Second Interlude was about Chiemon's morality a bit. This interlude lightly hints that Chiemon isn’t completely lost to hatred, as he chooses not to kill people who show up. This was when Jeanne and Chiemon were fighting monsters and puppets in the fort, and then human soldiers show up. However, it does little to advance Jeanne’s character or their relationship. This could have been an opportunity to explore Jeanne’s influence on Chiemon’s choices. Does her presence make him hesitate to kill? Does he see her as a silent judge of his actions? Conversely, how does Jeanne feel about his choices? This interlude should have been about the moral tension between them. The Third Interlude was alright. In this they walk into a trap and Jeanne forces Chiemon out of the way to fight the enemies herself. Then Chiemon gets angry at her trying to save him due to his survivors guilt. Jeanne then declares her love for him in place of God’s, and Chiemon reacts with a mix of denial and anger. It’s a powerful moment on paper but lacks the emotional buildup to make it hit as hard as it should. This moment could have been incredible if the previous interludes had laid the groundwork for Jeanne’s desire to save him and Chiemon’s growing conflict. Chiemon’s breakdown is compelling, but it would resonate more if we’d seen him wrestling with Jeanne’s kindness throughout the story.

In conclusion, Jeanne d’Arc in Fate/Samurai Remnant remains true to her character as a saintly and compassionate figure, even if the game’s execution leaves much to be desired. The misconception that she is "corrupted" is unfounded, as the narrative explicitly shows that her altered state is a result of her choice to bear Chiemon’s burdens rather than any external force twisting her will. Jeanne’s compassion and self-sacrifice are consistent with her established lore, and her actions—though subdued due to her weakened state—reflect her unwavering desire to save others, even at great personal cost.

However, the game struggles to fully explore the depth of her dynamic with Chiemon. The interludes, while touching on key aspects of their relationship, fail to provide the emotional buildup necessary to make their story as impactful as it could have been. Jeanne’s efforts to guide Chiemon and alleviate his despair deserved more focus, and the moral and emotional tension between them could have been better developed. Despite these shortcomings, Jeanne’s portrayal in Fate/Samurai Remnant offers a compelling and unique take on her character, reaffirming her saintly nature while navigating the tragedy of her situation.

Ultimately, Jeanne’s incorruptibility is not compromised, and her role in this story highlights her willingness to shoulder the burdens of others, even in the darkest of circumstances. While the execution falters, the ideas behind Jeanne’s character remain strong, proving once again why she is one of the most beloved and enduring figures in the Fate series.

If you’ve made it to the end, thank you for taking the time to read my thoughts! I’d love to hear your perspective, feel free to agree, disagree, or share your own take on Jeanne in Fate/Samurai Remnant.

[Louis Cypher]

Nice analysis

As you said:

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

Ultimately, Jeanne’s incorruptibility is not compromised, and her role in this story highlights her willingness to shoulder the burdens of others, even in the darkest of circumstances. While the execution falters, the ideas behind Jeanne’s character remain strong, proving once again why she is one of the most beloved and enduring figures in the Fate series.

I personally think that people are angry or disappointed because mostly they don’t understand that our JAlter from Grand Order isn't a real Jeanne after all. It is a twisted dream made reality by an even more twisted Giles de Rais from a twisted Singularity. But in all but name and appearance she has nothing to do with the historical Jeanne D’Arc.

The Jeanne from Samurai/Remnant is a true alternative version of Jeanne D’Arc.
And everything you pointed out – even the flawed things – leads to this conclusion.

[allknowingeel]

Originally posted by Louis Cypher:

Nice analysis

As you said:

Originally posted by allknowingeel:

Ultimately, Jeanne’s incorruptibility is not compromised, and her role in this story highlights her willingness to shoulder the burdens of others, even in the darkest of circumstances. While the execution falters, the ideas behind Jeanne’s character remain strong, proving once again why she is one of the most beloved and enduring figures in the Fate series.

I personally think that people are angry or disappointed because mostly they don’t understand that our JAlter from Grand Order isn't a real Jeanne after all. It is a twisted dream made reality by an even more twisted Giles de Rais from a twisted Singularity. But in all but name and appearance she has nothing to do with the historical Jeanne D’Arc.

The Jeanne from Samurai/Remnant is a true alternative version of Jeanne D’Arc.
And everything you pointed out – even the flawed things – leads to this conclusion.

Thanks!

I can see where you’re coming from, but I don’t think the evidence supports the idea that Jeanne in Fate/Samurai Remnant is a “true alternative version.” The materials explicitly state that she remains based on Ruler Jeanne, with no “alternative side” to her. Her altered state is entirely situational, stemming from her compassion and willingness to bear Chiemon’s burdens, rather than being a distinct or separate version of her character. I’d love to hear your thoughts on that distinction!

From the logbook:
"The original Jeanne d'Arc has no 'alternative side' to her. When summoned in Edo, it was not some sort of mysterious power that drew out a new side of her, but rather the hatred residing in the heart of her summoner that stained Jeanne d'Arc's mind. Because of this mental defilement, and the forceful way in which she was summoned, her abilities were severely weakened. That, however, was precisely why a second-rate Master like Chiemon was able to bind her and make her follow his orders."

This confirms that Jeanne has no “alternative side” to bring out, as previously established in Fate/Grand Order’s Orleans chapter. The staining of her mind doesn’t corrupt her morality—it only weakens her willpower and abilities. Jeanne’s altered state comes entirely from her choice to bear Chiemon’s hatred and anger as an act of compassion, not from any inherent corruption.

From the Fate/Samurai Remnant materials for Lancer Jeanne:
"The Servant summoned by Chiemon. True Name: Jeanne d'Arc. Class: Lancer. An Alter summon. It's normally impossible to summon an Alter of Jeanne d'Arc. Therefore, the version summoned in Fate/Samurai Remnant is a heavily distorted form.
Her mind and identity are based on the Ruler version of Jeanne d'Arc rather than on the regular Jeanne Alter.
Her Alter state comes in exchange for being unbelievably weaker than Ruler. Imagine a Jeanne with less strength of will.
The key concept is that of a saint accompanying a man who wishes for hell.
She has already discerned what Chiemon's true wish for the Waxing Moon Ritual is, and that is why she made her decision to dedicate her time in this summon exclusively to his salvation rather than to the salvation of many."

It says right here that the Alter state is only in exchange for being way weaker than her Ruler form and having less strength of will. Jeanne’s focus on Chiemon's salvation is key. The term “salvation” doesn’t mean fulfilling his destructive wish—it refers to offering him peace of mind and solace.

Jeanne’s character remains consistent with her role as someone who deeply cares for everyone. Here, as a Servant, she’s limited by her contract and can only do so much, but her intentions remain selfless and compassionate. She simply can’t have a true Alter.

I don’t see how everything I pointed out—supported by the materials—leads to the conclusion that she is a “true alternative version.” It feels like there’s a contradiction here. You acknowledge the materials and my analysis, which clearly state Jeanne can’t have a true Alter, but then conclude she is a “true alternative version.” Could you clarify how you’re reconciling that with the evidence? What makes you view her as a “true alternative version,” given the materials say otherwise?