Lancer might not be "Her".... *Spoilers*

[Sardorim]

Instead, it could be Jeanne des Armoises after having witnessed the death of Jeanne D'arc.

Could explain why "Lancer" looks a bit off and doesn't have an ahoge.

[GoodIntent]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Sunset:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Sardorim:

JAlter is supposed to be impossible to summon by anyone but Ritsuka as per her lore.

not really jalter is now a official servant added to the throne of course summoning someone like aint exactly easy either

Bit more complicated here, as been added into the throne of heroes still means that you need a "connection" to the world. If no one can recall you or exist in the memory of the world then you would not be in the "pool" of the random summon even if it's someone with a high compatibility.

This is like summoning a servant from outside of pan history, which you could tell it's unusual even to the servants that has been summoned.

[Louis Cypher]

@GoodIntent
While true that Berserker Jeanne is non-canon and Jeanne only qualifies as Avenger or Ruler, I highly doubt that you can summon a Foreigner-Jeanne Alter.
What do we know about the Foreigner class lore-wise?

"Those who wield power drawn from outside human boundaries. Entities from different dimensions that are foreign to human comprehension"

"Typically not Heroic Spirits, Foreigners are similar enough in nature to be classified in that way for the purposes of Chaldea. As foreign beings from outside of the world, they are typically bonded with an Outer God, the process of creating one being known as a complex process with a low chance of success."
(quoted from the type-moon wiki)

Does not seem to apply for JAlter even if you think her as a concept that does not fit into the world.

Otherwise I find your thoughts interesting about summoning Jeanne as an Alter. Yes, seems complicated and impossible as stated in her FGO lore.
What about the guy from Fate/Strange Fake that summoned Archer Heracles and altered him into half an Avenger?
Let us say the master is a french fanatic that inheres a lot of anger and sorrow about how the hundered-years-war went and about the Holy Maiden's destiny, they should be able to copy Gile de Rais' wish/thoughts and create an alternate Jeanne version...hypothetically...

[GoodIntent]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Louis Cypher:

@GoodIntent
While true that Berserker Jeanne is non-canon and Jeanne only qualifies as Avenger or Ruler, I highly doubt that you can summon a Foreigner-Jeanne Alter.
What do we know about the Foreigner class lore-wise?

"Those who wield power drawn from outside human boundaries. Entities from different dimensions that are foreign to human comprehension"

"Typically not Heroic Spirits, Foreigners are similar enough in nature to be classified in that way for the purposes of Chaldea. As foreign beings from outside of the world, they are typically bonded with an Outer God, the process of creating one being known as a complex process with a low chance of success."
(quoted from the type-moon wiki)

Does not seem to apply for JAlter even if you think her as a concept that does not fit into the world.

Otherwise I find your thoughts interesting about summoning Jeanne as an Alter. Yes, seems complicated and impossible as stated in her FGO lore.
What about the guy from Fate/Strange Fake that summoned Archer Heracles and altered him into half an Avenger?
Let us say the master is a french fanatic that inheres a lot of anger and sorrow about how the hundered-years-war went and about the Holy Maiden's destiny, they should be able to copy Gile de Rais' wish/thoughts and create an alternate Jeanne version...hypothetically...

Yes, all that about Foreigner is true. But the big take here is if one is outside of The World/Gaia's "system" or not. Voyager is the prime example of how it qualifies as one because it has sailed out side of the literal system, heck he even qualifies as end of the world it's self. Kukulkan and Koyan Dark also are in the similar vines though Kuku double qualifies as an literal alien.

As for the if Jean is corruptible or if one's will can really go through it's... the first one is a sounding no unfortunately, Jeanne is quite literally incorruptible. The mud won't alter her at all because she is just that pure, the curse of the grail means nothing to the la pucelle. As for the Gile incarnate, the actual Jean would show up. Yep, she will get summoned even if the said master is evil incarnate and will try to make them repent non-stop. All the while still fighting the grail war... yeah this is her shtick, I'm actually also not kidding on all of that.

However, if Gile incarnate wins the war and would still make the same wish as blue beardo did then there's a small chance the chaldea JAlter would be created by that wish. Though it'll most likely just create a different kind of JAlter altogether.

All in all there's no way for the world to recognize JAlter as it really has nothing to be called up on, Jean has no different side as far as the world and even the throne is concerned as JAlter is something that's perfectly self contained.

[Louis Cypher]

I see, it makes sense. You have a very deep understanding of the lore and you can explain it very well.

[allknowingeel]

I gotta say though, if it is not Jeanne alter, after giving us this, the community will be pissed. I don't really care, as I never saw the attraction of Jeanne Alter.

[GoodIntent]

It could be Ohori Tsuruhime

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8Ch%C5%8Dri_Tsuruhime

Also, if the Musashi in this is tied to her remains that was left in Shimousa then I suppose a connection could be present?

[LE$IK-88]

guys, you are forgetting one important thing - the time and place of the summon affect the result. Yes, Jeanne cannot be corrupted, but let me remind you that Jeanne was canonized as a saint (ruler) only in the 20th century! Everything before that is a potential aberration summoning of Jeanne as a witch.

[GoodIntent]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย LE$IK-88:

guys, you are forgetting one important thing - the time and place of the summon affect the result. Yes, Jeanne cannot be corrupted, but let me remind you that Jeanne was canonized as a saint (ruler) only in the 20th century! Everything before that is a potential aberration summoning of Jeanne as a witch.

Well canonization don't actually affect the throne's classification, as amakusa is never canonized.

So would something like Vlad III's Legend Of Dracula and Elizabeth becoming Carmilla happen for Jean? Quite a bit would need to happen before those would happen. As something like the latter overshadowing the former that is considered to be the inspiration world wide regardless of been true or not, with already existing aspects in the memories of the world to act as extension or point of corruption.

This won't work for Jean as she is rather unique or perhaps simple is the better word? even in the throne, as she was really just working on a higher will. The TLDR version is that Nasu really wanted to make a super saint and she was the result.

[Shahadem]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย GoodIntent:

I do wonder if JAlter could even be summoned into any "real" grail wars, like she's technically in the throne but I don't think catalyst would work for her or even getting picked for random compatibility based summons.

Jalter could be summoned in any war because Jalter is just the English version of Jeanne of Arc.

Jeanne is the version the French know and Jalter is the witch version the English tortured, put on trial and then burned.

Heroic spirits are just human concepts rather than the actual character. So it makes perfect sense that two different Jeannes would exist because the real historical character was known in two different ways.

[allknowingeel]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Shahadem:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย GoodIntent:

I do wonder if JAlter could even be summoned into any "real" grail wars, like she's technically in the throne but I don't think catalyst would work for her or even getting picked for random compatibility based summons.

Jalter could be summoned in any war because Jalter is just the English version of Jeanne of Arc.

Jeanne is the version the French know and Jalter is the witch version the English tortured, put on trial and then burned.

Heroic spirits are just human concepts rather than the actual character. So it makes perfect sense that two different Jeannes would exist because the real historical character was known in two different ways.

No she isn't. Jeanne Alter is a wish made by Gilles, this was explained in fate grand order. Alter has no relationship whatsoever to Jeanne. The reason she has the power to use flames that were supposedly used to burn the real Jeanne is because Gilles thought of the flames that killed the real Jeanne.

Here is the wiki:
'Also known as Jeanne Alter (ジャンヌ・オルタ, Jan'nu Oruta?), she is the Alter version of Jeanne d'Arc. Although designated an Alter, it does not mean that she is a different aspect of Jeanne d'Arc. A Jeanne of vengeance that Gilles de Rais, the French Army's marshal who grieved for Jeanne d'Arc's death, fabricated by means of the Holy Grail shortly after the execution of Jeanne in 1431. As a Heroic Spirit that is an exact opposite of the proper Jeanne, she is manifesting in the Avenger Class.[2]

Since the proper Jeanne is not a hero, but a saint, the possibility of "summoning a different aspect of her" is nil. Because this black Jeanne has Gilles de Rais' anger... the prejudices and wishes for her to be like that... mixed in with her fundamental parts, a "side" that should never happen ended up being brought to the surface.[2] As such, one can think that this Jeanne d'Arc is mostly made up by Gilles de Rais' prejudices; an existence encapsulating much of the corrupted Gilles' biases and feelings. The Dragon Witch that resurrected for the sake of getting vengeance against France.[3] A holy woman who talks about justice as if she owned the place and, without having any doubts about that, is spurred on by the wrath against the people; that is the form which Gilles de Rais wished her to be like.[2]'

[King Of Lolis]

Why lancer ffs
Shes an avenger or a berserker in fgo
Would fit more
Id prefer the bald saitama guy as lancer cuz he fits this theme more

[Exolden]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย allknowingeel:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย GoodIntent:

That's because that is Jean's memories before she got the divine providence, JAlter is created by Gilles de Rais with the grail as someone that didn't accept the fate that providence had shown her.

This means that she would not actually qualify as Pretender or Alter-ego as she's a different been to Jean altogether, it also qualifies her as a Foreigner because she is a foreign concept to the world it's self.

She's classified as as either an avenger or beserker in most cases. But her Beserker form is basically a joke and has her saying German stuff instead of French. E.g " Schwarzwald Falke", "Meurs Où Tu Dois" "Völkermord Feuerdrache"
https://gamepress.gg/grandorder/servant/jeanne-darc-alter
https://gamepress.gg/grandorder/servant/jeanne-darc-berserker-alter

There is also the Ruler Jeanne Alter but she can't be summoned and is the one that Gilles wished from the grail. You cannot summon this version in grand order.
https://fategrandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Jeanne_d%27Arc_(Ruler_Alter)_(Enemy)
Although in universe, the Avenger Jeanne may be seen as this version (the one you fight in Orleans) that you summon because bond 2 of avenger Jeanne says
"Although she is called "Alter," she is not the alternative side of Jeanne d'Arc.
Rather, she is the reflection of Gilles de Rais' sorrow over Jeanne's death and a being created by the Holy Grail.
As a Heroic Spirit completely opposite to Jeanne d'Arc, she materializes in this world as Avenger."
And also the fact that the avenger Jeanne in Shinjuku recognises you and acts as if she has the memories of Ruler Jeanne alter from Orleans.

Originally we were supposed to summon the ruler version of jalter as a 4 star welfare during her event but surprisingly the fanbase really liked goth gf so much they made her an ssr avenger instead.

[Darx]

still you cant recruit her. no buy from me

[allknowingeel]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Exolden:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย allknowingeel:

She's classified as as either an avenger or beserker in most cases. But her Beserker form is basically a joke and has her saying German stuff instead of French. E.g " Schwarzwald Falke", "Meurs Où Tu Dois" "Völkermord Feuerdrache"
https://gamepress.gg/grandorder/servant/jeanne-darc-alter
https://gamepress.gg/grandorder/servant/jeanne-darc-berserker-alter

There is also the Ruler Jeanne Alter but she can't be summoned and is the one that Gilles wished from the grail. You cannot summon this version in grand order.
https://fategrandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Jeanne_d%27Arc_(Ruler_Alter)_(Enemy)
Although in universe, the Avenger Jeanne may be seen as this version (the one you fight in Orleans) that you summon because bond 2 of avenger Jeanne says
"Although she is called "Alter," she is not the alternative side of Jeanne d'Arc.
Rather, she is the reflection of Gilles de Rais' sorrow over Jeanne's death and a being created by the Holy Grail.
As a Heroic Spirit completely opposite to Jeanne d'Arc, she materializes in this world as Avenger."
And also the fact that the avenger Jeanne in Shinjuku recognises you and acts as if she has the memories of Ruler Jeanne alter from Orleans.

Originally we were supposed to summon the ruler version of jalter as a 4 star welfare during her event but surprisingly the fanbase really liked goth gf so much they made her an ssr avenger instead.

I don't understand why people like her so much, she is an evil b*tch that wanted to commit genocide and everyone's like "F*ck yeah i'm into that", like seriously, why? Do people like how unapologetically evil she is? Is it due to the fact that she likes the master (and by extension the player) so much compared to other people?

I understand liking regular Jeanne due to the cool stuff about her and her ideals. The story about her in fate go is great, where Jeanne alter only exists to develop regular Jeanne's character.