When exactly are you taught wall jumping?

[PixelDemise]

I've been playing the game and really enjoying it. I came across the yellow area way earlier on when passing between two other zones, saw it had clearly what was a wall jump focus, and as I hadn't got that upgrade yet I moved on. Then I cleared a huge chunk of the game, never once going into the wall jump area again.

Now after nearly fully exploring the map, I've gone back to check the yellow area out again. I spent like a solid 10 minutes stuck in one area, trying to comb over any path I could have missed, and was moments away from giving up. Then by pure controller mashing I dashed into a wall, and suddenly could wall jump.

Were you just always able to wall jump, or did the game never show the tutorial for it? When was I meant to learn this, as this entire area I never bothered with until now. I'm guessing figuring out how to single-wall jump is more of a "do it on your own" thing, as the Demon at the top really feels like a challenge fight for the "pros", but basic wall jumping is the entire concept of the area, and I don't ever remember seeing it given in a tutorial anywhere.

[Молодобородый]

If I remember correctly, this possibility is always there and it is not explained anywhere

[Loiya]

It's not outright explained anywhere. Like most of the movement abilities, you're told the basic functions and expected to figure out the rest of it, with the levels generally laid out in a way that you'll discover these things by "accident." It's an elegant way to turn what would be a text box into a moment of discovery for the player, but the wall running/jumping "tutorial" wasn't done as well as the others.

[PixelDemise]

Originally posted by Loiya:

It's not outright explained anywhere. Like most of the movement abilities, you're told the basic functions and expected to figure out the rest of it, with the levels generally laid out in a way that you'll discover these things by "accident." It's an elegant way to turn what would be a text box into a moment of discovery for the player, but the wall running/jumping "tutorial" wasn't done as well as the others.

Thanks for the answer, it's really not the one I wanted to hear, but eh, so be it.

Several points when you unlocked a new power, the game was fully willing to at least show you the controls for that new power, which button to use it, and then it tosses you into the "playground" where you can learn the extra little things it enables on your own. For walljumping though, it has a fairly strict requirement as I understand, needing you to dash into a flat wall to start clinging on. At the very bottom of the yellow area there was a slightly elevated platform that would have been a perfect spot to just add a brief popup of the dash button.

With how the entire rest of the game is clearly focused on "you get a powerup that enables X new ability", I saw that spot, saw how narrow the room was encouraging me to just keep moving forward, and the conclusion I came to was "I'll backtrack here later on when I get an upgrade".

Rather than not being done well at all, I feel like it genuinely contradicts the design style of the rest of the game. Minor things, like getting some of the HP upgrades, are left completely unexplained and require the player to figure them out on their own, but the major abilities like dashing on water as Blue, slingshotting yourself as Orange, or even that you'll eventually gain more combat options when I came across an enemy that had fire weakness before ever fusing with Orange, are at least clearly shown to be a new ability that you either just unlocked, or will unlock soon.

It's a bit frustrating that there was this entire zone stuck in my head that I dismissed not because I didn't want to explore it, but because the game has taught me "You'll need a powerup first", and then never gave me that powerup because it was always there from the start

[MezzoMe]

Wall cling: Shard 10, minute 3:13
Wall jump: Shard 13, minute 4:13
https://youtu.be/3OIIIlKSckQ?t=254

[Gaze73]

Definitely a design flaw, not only because you're never told about it, but also because it's mostly used in the only area that's 100% optional. I just finished the game without collecting any orb in the yellow area.

[Clead HeavenHell]

Won't deny it was quite frustrating noticing you can wall run quite end game... I feel like if any other area kind of forced you do it or even if other areas allowed you to do it, it would have been more fun.

[Chaos]

It basically teaches you in the red area, unless you just ignored the shards and just walk past them.

[XenosHg]

"basically teaches you" I still cannot perform it. What do I need to press? I crash into the wall, just hang limply and fall down. Do I press towards wall and jump? away and jump? Nothing and jump?

Running up the wall doesn't work either. Do I need to hold it before crashing? Press it after crashing? Crash into the wall while running?

[Gaze73]

Originally posted by XenosHg:

"basically teaches you" I still cannot perform it. What do I need to press? I crash into the wall, just hang limply and fall down. Do I press towards wall and jump? away and jump? Nothing and jump?

Running up the wall doesn't work either. Do I need to hold it before crashing? Press it after crashing? Crash into the wall while running?

Are you just normally running or using the turbo sprint? The sprint should automatically run up a wall.

[XenosHg]

Yes, it seems that I was pressing the buttons too late - maybe I thought that the moment of crashing is actually the dead zone, and I need to press once movement starts.
When in fact you must press during this pause, and after that it's too late.
Maybe if pathfinding towards Orange was forcing me through a wall-jump section I might have discovered it, but it helpfully makes a path around the map, so I didn't need to.

And, as for wall-running, running has an ability to jump and then continue running, plus a cool animation of stopping, plus why would I genuinely crash face-first into walls?
There are only around 3 climbable walls in all of first 6 areas, with 2 of them possible but useless, and only the third (huge flowers section) actually required. Even when I'm looking for them while backtracking, there aren't many options.

I feel like maybe the North area transition explains wall-running by just making you stumble into a step while running through the darkness, and that makes you flip in the air and think - wait, what was that?

[Gaze73]

Originally posted by XenosHg:

Yes, it seems that I was pressing the buttons too late - maybe I thought that the moment of crashing is actually the dead zone, and I need to press once movement starts.
When in fact you must press during this pause, and after that it's too late.
Maybe if pathfinding towards Orange was forcing me through a wall-jump section I might have discovered it, but it helpfully makes a path around the map, so I didn't need to.

And, as for wall-running, running has an ability to jump and then continue running, plus a cool animation of stopping, plus why would I genuinely crash face-first into walls?
There are only around 3 climbable walls in all of first 6 areas, with 2 of them possible but useless, and only the third (huge flowers section) actually required. Even when I'm looking for them while backtracking, there aren't many options.

I feel like maybe the North area transition explains wall-running by just making you stumble into a step while running through the darkness, and that makes you flip in the air and think - wait, what was that?

You need it a lot in the path of determination https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_WG1305v1I&ab_channel=BlackTorito

[rosepaw]

The annoying thing is, I never learned you could wallrun after you hit a wall with the dash, the ONLY reason I learned was because of the path of determination

[Kazuya nuzurumi]

I honestly enjoy messing around with stuff, so i'm glad i learned them pretty quick, but no. Apart from a few puzzles where it is required (Mushroom inverted rainy place) i don't think there ever was a tutorial. The same goes for wallrunning.

[vblu6]

Originally posted by PixelDemise:

Originally posted by Loiya:

It's not outright explained anywhere. Like most of the movement abilities, you're told the basic functions and expected to figure out the rest of it, with the levels generally laid out in a way that you'll discover these things by "accident." It's an elegant way to turn what would be a text box into a moment of discovery for the player, but the wall running/jumping "tutorial" wasn't done as well as the others.

Thanks for the answer, it's really not the one I wanted to hear, but eh, so be it.

Several points when you unlocked a new power, the game was fully willing to at least show you the controls for that new power, which button to use it, and then it tosses you into the "playground" where you can learn the extra little things it enables on your own. For walljumping though, it has a fairly strict requirement as I understand, needing you to dash into a flat wall to start clinging on. At the very bottom of the yellow area there was a slightly elevated platform that would have been a perfect spot to just add a brief popup of the dash button.

With how the entire rest of the game is clearly focused on "you get a powerup that enables X new ability", I saw that spot, saw how narrow the room was encouraging me to just keep moving forward, and the conclusion I came to was "I'll backtrack here later on when I get an upgrade".

Rather than not being done well at all, I feel like it genuinely contradicts the design style of the rest of the game. Minor things, like getting some of the HP upgrades, are left completely unexplained and require the player to figure them out on their own, but the major abilities like dashing on water as Blue, slingshotting yourself as Orange, or even that you'll eventually gain more combat options when I came across an enemy that had fire weakness before ever fusing with Orange, are at least clearly shown to be a new ability that you either just unlocked, or will unlock soon.

It's a bit frustrating that there was this entire zone stuck in my head that I dismissed not because I didn't want to explore it, but because the game has taught me "You'll need a powerup first", and then never gave me that powerup because it was always there from the start

Definitely agree on the HP shard thing, some of them are just outright "Oh scream at these perfectly-aligned graphics to get a shard :)" and 9/10 times you would be too distracted trying to find the darn stick hand to look at THE FLIPPING FOREGROUND.

(I'm talking to you, lake area =,=)

[RabidHobbit]

THERE IS WALL JUMP IN THIS GAME?? I've been looking everywhere for a wall jump "power-up" to progress through that vertical area in the "North" and had no idea I could always just do this... Thank God for this thread!