The 1 thing this game can learn from old platformers - jump shadows / camera tilt

[FizzlePopBerryTwist]

The one thing in this game i find tricky are long distance jumps.
I never feel confident making them onto any small platform.

https://i.ibb.co/x1pWyhB/image.png

This one in particular - i overshot it twice... - it looks extremly simple but... there is 1 issue with the game it highlights (like it does in my other places)... the hyperrealistic RTX shadows... are not very good for platforming.

The problem is, as 'drawn' above, that if you jump the light comes from an angle.
Now your shadow (black circle) of your character (purple ruby) is cast against a wall or whatever... - and you can't judge distance with the camera remaning fairly flat.

https://i.ibb.co/th4JzKW/image.png (**Y)
Take your best guess how far i am away from the platform.
I approach the platform, jump, and the camera ZOOMS OUT...
- did i just get airborn?
- am i half way there?
- is Rivet above the platform?

>There is no shadow!
>The camera pulled back
> and for a moment even went below Rivets height at the start of the jump.

... that is pretty bad in an otherwise highy polished game!

Here, look at this one, a picture taken half a second later:
https://i.ibb.co/JB6n0vS/image.png

How far did she jump? You can't tell.
She doesn't 'obscure' the edge of the platform but only because her legs are pulled closer and the tail lifted partially - but the character is only single pixels smaller and otherwise you got no idea whats going on.

IN FACT: (going back to screenshot 1)
https://i.ibb.co/x1pWyhB/image.png
THIS is what the camera perspective looks like when you stand where you are. 2-3m away.
Take just ONE step closer to the edge and it zooms out as seen in screenshot 2 +3 to disorientate you!

I think this was done deliberate to make this jump hard (since there are goodies upstairs)
The other side of the room got crates to go up (no risk of falling).

I figure the devs had a laugh here...
[Haha very funny you guys]

-- I will show you how old 3D platformers did that - right --
https://i.ibb.co/hLqHGtd/image.png
Super Mario doesn't just have a circle below him because the N64 couldn't handle RTX (because it obviously can, duh) ...
This is made so you can SEE WHERE YOU LAND. Always!
Jump - move the shadow above the landing area - touchdown!
You always felt confident where you land. There is no guesswork- you wont even look at Mario and won't even think about it!

Bubsy freaking 3D - didn't just have the drop-shadow but also tilted the camera DOWN as to give you an 'overhead' view where you land. And this game is TERRIBLE at everything it does, including jumping, but the intentions are there.

[*this reminds me of something I heard about music in games/movies. 'You only notice music when its bad...' <- and i think the same goes for game mechanics too...]

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...and now comes the surprise twist to (**Y): on this screenshot I did NOT move her.
I just jumped UP in one spot. Only in the 3rd screenshot i actually jump for the platform... or.... do i? .... yeah I do. Seriously.

BUT YOU COULDN'T TELL ON **Y!
That is... pretty bad... don't you think?!
If i wasn't the one posting and looking at that picture... I had no idea this was the case!

A jump this simple being this unforgivingly hard to judge.

-----------------

The saving grace here is: that the level design of this game is pretty good.

Most jumps either have a big landing zone and do not requier precision - or 'snap' to things like wallrides or rails or hooks etc... - with these small platforms surrounded by death - being fairly rare overall.

The only other spot coming to mind is in the fordge level just after the vendor but the camera and geometry is a bit better (not gonna lie, still died there the first time too).

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If you put that camera/shadow in Mario64, which has a lot for tight jumps, i guarantee you people will throw they controller through their screen before collecting 5 stars.

Again; a 'hurrah' for the level design(ers)... - they made it work while keeping 'realistic' shadows.

Though i just wish they replaced with SOMETHING else. A glow. A marker projected by the robots. A 2nd fake shadow that appears and vanishes. OR the "real shadow" breaking the rule of the light-sources for a second to slip underneath you, only to 'return to normal' after the landing...

Just... something.

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Not a big deal. Not game breaking. Not bringing down the game any time soon.
Just a grape I had with 1-2 jumps, which i hope we get 'fixed', once we get a sequel or... DLC?! *hopes*

It is a near perfect game and I think I was able to show how it could be a little better.
I hope the devs consider pointers like this and make the next game even better ♥

I imagine they heard plenty over the years- which is how they got so far :p

EDIT: naturally this can be optional OR just place lamps above those obstacles.
(ps. also saw the latest Crash game HAS this exact option: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEu3rxaUshY (at 1:50-2:00
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PS. unrelated note. I saw 3D artwork and ...
https://i.ibb.co/tPQft4d/image.png can we have SLY as DLC quest with focus on stealth?
PRETTY PLEASE! :D

[Zappy]

Originally posted by FizzlePopBerryTwist:

- Take just ONE step closer to the edge and it zooms out as seen in screenshot 2 +3 to disorientate you! I think this was done deliberate to make this jump hard (since there are goodies upstairs) -

Personally, I think that this was done to make it easier to see the higher ledge, so that the jump pad could be less disorientating than if the camera had to stay close to Rivet and move vertically up and down along with her.
(It still moves up and down with her, but by being farther away, the surrounding wall/geometry moves slower on the screen, so it might be less nauseating for some people.)

Originally posted by FizzlePopBerryTwist:

- Super Mario doesn't just have a circle below him because the N64 couldn't handle RTX - Though i just wish they replaced [a lack of drop shadows in this game] with SOMETHING else. A glow. A marker projected by the robots. A 2nd fake shadow that appears and vanishes. OR the "real shadow" breaking the rule of the light-sources for a second to slip underneath you, only to 'return to normal' after the landing... -

Fun fact: 7 of the 14 console Ratchet & Clank games actually do the "breaking the rule to slip underneath you" thing while airborne.

(Ratchet & Clank 1, 2, 3, Gladiator/Deadlocked, A Crack in Time, QForce/Full Frontal Assault, and Nexus/Into the Nexus do it. Size Matters and Secret Agent Clank always have vertical shadows, even while grounded, and All 4 One always has a glowing marker beneath players, so you can bump it up to 10 of the 14 games having drop shadows in general. That leaves Tools of Destruction, Quest for Booty, the 2016 game, and Rift Apart having "realistic" shadows only.)


If I could disable it in those games, I probably would. I find the shadow suddenly moving beneath you to be more distracting than helpful, and usually just rely on perspective and motion to determine jump distances instead.
But "perspective" isn't reliable if the game moves the camera in a way that you're not used to (e.g. zooming out like it does in that spot), so I agree with you on it being disorientating - but I don't think that that was the intention, and I personally didn't have trouble with that jump because of it.

[D. Flame]

I do 1 jump for distance, then use my double jump for adjusting once close.

[FizzlePopBerryTwist]

Originally posted by Zappy:

Originally posted by FizzlePopBerryTwist:

- Take just ONE step closer to the edge and it zooms out as seen in screenshot 2 +3 to disorientate you! I think this was done deliberate to make this jump hard (since there are goodies upstairs) -

Personally, I think that this was done to make it easier to see the higher ledge, so that the jump pad could be less disorientating than if the camera had to stay close to Rivet and move vertically up and down along with her.
(It still moves up and down with her, but by being farther away, the surrounding wall/geometry moves slower on the screen, so it might be less nauseating for some people.)

Originally posted by FizzlePopBerryTwist:

- Super Mario doesn't just have a circle below him because the N64 couldn't handle RTX - Though i just wish they replaced [a lack of drop shadows in this game] with SOMETHING else. A glow. A marker projected by the robots. A 2nd fake shadow that appears and vanishes. OR the "real shadow" breaking the rule of the light-sources for a second to slip underneath you, only to 'return to normal' after the landing... -

Fun fact: 7 of the 14 console Ratchet & Clank games actually do the "breaking the rule to slip underneath you" thing while airborne.

(Ratchet & Clank 1, 2, 3, Gladiator/Deadlocked, A Crack in Time, QForce/Full Frontal Assault, and Nexus/Into the Nexus do it. Size Matters and Secret Agent Clank always have vertical shadows, even while grounded, and All 4 One always has a glowing marker beneath players, so you can bump it up to 10 of the 14 games having drop shadows in general. That leaves Tools of Destruction, Quest for Booty, the 2016 game, and Rift Apart having "realistic" shadows only.)


If I could disable it in those games, I probably would. I find the shadow suddenly moving beneath you to be more distracting than helpful, and usually just rely on perspective and motion to determine jump distances instead.
But "perspective" isn't reliable if the game moves the camera in a way that you're not used to (e.g. zooming out like it does in that spot), so I agree with you on it being disorientating - but I don't think that that was the intention, and I personally didn't have trouble with that jump because of it.

Zooming out on a flat angle doesn't make it easier. Quite the opposite.
The farther you are away the smaller seems any additional change of angles Oo

The funfact you mentioned... i don't think its very fun - to fall to your death, repeatedly...
It seems like i don't like being punished like a naughty Wombat.

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As for "i would turn if off..."
Lets look at how one of THE best platformers ever does it in its latest title!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEu3rxaUshY&ab_channel=IGN
1:50 to 2:00 they just put in an option! If you like it you keep it and if not its gone.
Though i bet my fancy pants (skin) 90% would leave it on. It just works.

BUT you can also do it more organically and simply have a (strong) light source above such tricky jumps! This way a natural shadow is cast and it blends into the game seemlessly. People wouldn't even notice without knowing its there....

Naturally it would help to have the camera go UP further if you perform a long-jump.

... though i am still convinced the devs hat a (devious) laugh at our expense...

Marry xmas.

... and I Crash think is my next platformer. (juuuust because he got neat shadows! :p)

[Zappy]

Originally posted by FizzlePopBerryTwist:

- The funfact you mentioned... i don't think its very fun - to fall to your death, repeatedly... -

That's not the fun fact.

Originally posted by FizzlePopBerryTwist:

- As for "i would turn if off..." Lets look at how one of THE best platformers ever does it in its latest title! [Video of Crash Bandicoot 4] they just put in an option! -

Crash Bandicoot 4: It's About Time doesn't do the "breaking the rule to slip under you" thing. It has an (optional) marker underneath the player while airborne instead. Both are "drop shadows", but they're not the same thing, and I only really meant that I'd disable the former.

(Plus, Crash Bandicoot 4 has a fixed perspective instead of a free-following camera, so it benefits from the concept of drop shadows more than Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart does, but that's beside the point.)
My point is, some people prefer always having "realistic" shadows, and I personally did not have trouble from the lack of drop shadows - so an option (for some form of drop shadow) would be nice, as opposed to globally enforcing "breaking the rule to slip under you" for everyone like half of the Ratchet & Clank console games do. (Not that globally forbidding drop shadows for everyone is "better".)

[FizzlePopBerryTwist]

https://ibb.co/G95VFm2
I got it now and... i like it. Helps me a lot :3

I think an option where its "just the drop shadow" without the 'circle' would been nice but thats nitpicking at this point. As long its optional, nobody can complain, that's my motto.

oh and... we now got Sackboy too... not my cup but hey... we are Playstation now!

happyHoliday(sale